james' bass build

[james condino]

I've had this bass in the works for a while now, and it is still a work in progress, but after watching, enjoying, and learning a lot from all of the other builders here I figured it was time to start sharing some of my experiences in the process. Last year I posted a few images of it on my workbench; several folks were very supportive and on the other side of the spectrum, several of the thought police came down hard on me for it. I've also had a lot of very enthusiastic folks ask me to start a thread, show some photos, and try to contribute to the forum. I checked in with Chris and a couple of the other mods a while back and they gave me the go ahead, so her's my take....

Many of you know me from my work with the Guild of American Luthiers, my column in Mandolin Magazine, my finishing video over at finewoodworking.com, and a host of other (rather obscure) luthier's publication ramblings, the trade shows, and the host of folks I'm lucky enough to play and gig with regularly. My records are weak at best, but by my estimate, I can total about 350 new instruments that I've built or had major work into, along with countless repairs and partial builds. Is a top and neck replacement on a heavily damaged instrument a build with another subcontractor for the other 1/2 of the instrument, or is it a simple repair on someone else's greater repair. The new issue of Mandolin Magazine has an article I wrote on just those ideas working on vintage Loar and Fern era instruments.

Over the next while, I'll try to chronicle my efforts and experiences on this, my first bass build. It is not for sale, I don't want to sell it- having WAYYYYYYYY to much fun playing and learning from it, and I don't know if I can give up production time from the other instruments to actually build another one if someone even liked it. That said, I do fall into the commercial user posting a non-commercial intention forum nefarious zone.

Anyone wanting a candid report on the sound can check in with Eliott Wadopian. He and I goofed off and laughed about basses a few days ago over at his place and he gave it a good workout. He also helped me out and cursed me by letting me checkout his ancient Prescott and another bass which both have extensions- I've GOTTA have one now, so it is in the works (extension, not the old warhorse Prescott).

So far I've used hand tools for 99% of the build. I did use a giant resaw and thickness sander for the ribs and since I was in there, I took advantage of my buddy's ancient, but very precise 20" jointer and ran both the faces and the actual joint over the plates, before giving them a lot of hand work.

Outside of everything else, I'm a musician first. The luthier stuff luckily keeps me from having to get a job somewhere else (terrifying....). On any given week, you can find me giging with a nice late 50s jazz group, a Celtic trio, a gypsy swing project, and countless vegetarian hillbillies rockin' the newgrass sound in the Blueridge. I pitz; I arco; and I beat the daylights out of the thing in anyway possible to get that sound that makes folks dance like they are possessed. I've lived all over the world and like modern designs. Like a lot of other builders, I'm on the constant search to improve what I can to make the instrument work better from my point of view. Old crusty folks, beware. You will be seeing some ideas that may get you worked up over the course of this thread....

I've got another thread going on cedar soundposts, so I'll make my first images in regard to the post area and my new access panel.

After searching for about a year and getting all sorts of confusing information about finishes, I didn't really get anywhere. I wanted to do an oil varnish, but couldn't find enough solid unanimity among folks that I asked for information to get me to a confident place, so I stuck to what I know best- french polished / spirit varnished shellac. After all, I am the dork with the finishing video, and it works out well because I've got the technique down and I always have shellac mixed up in the shop, so I can touch up anytime I want.

These images show it with the current blonde sealer coats- about 3-4 coats, hand rubbed. I'll be posting more finish ideas and images later.

Right away, you'll notice my access panel opening. 'Sure to rub some crusty folks bad....but if you worked on other folks basses all of the time, you'd get sick of that ship-in-a-bottle game fast. Prior to this bass, I always carry my custom soundpost setting tools to every gig- and I use them regularly. No need now- a Swiss army knife takes the place.

The insert door is carefully cut with an extremely thin (approx 0.010: kerf) saw blade and then put back in place.

The day I cut this, I was a little nervous about the idea. 20 minutes later, someone else knocked a neck off a rack hanging on the wall and put about a four inch crack in the treble upper bout side, even reversing the bend of the wood. All I had to do was stick my arm in the panel opening, push it back into position (faced with a nice oversized caul), hit it with a bit of hide glue and a couple of cleats. Total time was about 15 minutes versus half a day going through the f hole. I was sold!!!

j.

[james condino]

I'll try again with the images:

[james condino]

Aside from all of the great repairability options, I honestly feel that having this type of visibility and access allows me to fit a soundpost better than I ever could in the past. A smaller person could get by with a much smaller opening, but not me....

The finished new cedar soundpost installed with the nice internal view :

[james condino]

You'll also notice that those ain't your grandma's old f-holes. Wish I could claim the design as mine, but they are 100% the late John Zeidler. I copied them from one of his beautiful mandolins and then spent a couple of bucks at Kinko's blowing them up until they were the size I was after.

j.
www.condino.com

[Stickk]

That's one sexy bass dude, congradulations!

[Pentabass]

This is going to be very interesting. Thank you for posting.

Already I notice a somewhat thin top, and what seems to be a non-restrictive finish. That top plate should really be moving ...

[Matthew Tucker]

Neat. I like the thin internal linings. How does it sound with the door open?

[forester]

i want more....

[james condino]

The linings are western red cedar, not as small as they look in the photos- approximately 4mm thick by 17 mm (5/8"+) tall and they offset the external linings by about 1/8" taller. Both the internal and ouside are beveled pretty far for a smooth transition to the sides. Internals are morticed into the blocks.

The top plate isn't as thin as it might appear. I like to thin it a bit around the soundhole so the mass seems visually less.

The sound with the door open is similar to the sound with it closed, but a bit less fundamental. I'll say the same thing about the upper bout port.

Since the door is open (no pun intended), can we chat a bit about side ports? I've been using three descending sized side ports on guitars and mandolins since 1995. Probably 90% of the smaller instruments get them. If you look at my mandolins, you'll see the design is similar to Arnold's ergo model. I wanted to continue using that same design, just to keep with continuity of my portfolio. BUT, I also didn't want bass nerds asking me for the next 20 years why I pinched Arnold's ideas, so I just went with a single port. Please don't misinterpret me- nobody around here can or should take credit for the circle. The earliest example of this style side ports that I know of dates back to the mid 1500s on a lute.

On the smaller instruments I love the ports and generally always put them on my personal instruments. In the double bass? I think it's a bust....I've done a fair bit of messing around with it, changing the size, and using hemholtz tubes to try to lower the fundamental, but not much really happens that is audible. On a mandolin, it JUMPS out in your face with a strong presence; same thing with a guitar. On the bass, people just tend to stick their nose or fingers in there and ask a bunch of questions. I don't think I'd do it again. Arnold- you out there reading? Any thoughts on your experience? I noticed that I haven't seen any of them on your newer basses. The best thing about them for me is that I got that out of my head and now can get on with other things...

As for the overall sound and volume of the bass. Here is how I'll sum it up: The first day I had it (just barely) strung up and out for a test run, two banjo players that I regularly gig with (part of life when you live in North Carolina....) both asked me to back off and said I was playing too loud. That was a first ever for me.

j.

[james condino]

The massive heel you can see in the photo is still in the rough state; it'll get smaller as things progress. No worry of a heel crack right now! You can also see the violin shoulder on the upper bout, rather than the standard sloped shoulders, and the 4 1/2" thick rib depth at the neck joint, thanks to the heavy back bend. Down by the end pin the ribs are about 8 1/2" deep. Stay tuned....

j.

[ctregan]

Thanks for sharing your project with us.

To do a natural finnish, the craftsmanship must be flawless. It looks great. Nice clean work.

When can we get a full frontal view?

[Heifetzbass]

James,

Glad you got to hook up with my boy Eliot. I am sure he can give the bass a great workout.

I am going to make time to come up the mountain and see this and talk about my PM a while back. School will be out soon, so I will have some time... hopefully, we can hook up. I will bring the "Heifetz" for you to check out.

Nice looking bass... can't wait to see it in person.
Congrats,
BG

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by james condino

On the smaller instruments I love the ports and generally always put them on my personal instruments. In the double bass? I think it's a bust....I've done a fair bit of messing around with it, changing the size, and using hemholtz tubes to try to lower the fundamental, but not much really happens that is audible. On a mandolin, it JUMPS out in your face with a strong presence; same thing with a guitar. On the bass, people just tend to stick their nose or fingers in there and ask a bunch of questions. I don't think I'd do it again. Arnold- you out there reading? Any thoughts on your experience? I noticed that I haven't seen any of them on your newer basses. The best thing about them for me is that I got that out of my head and now can get on with other things...

j.

I'm still using rib ports, but only on my "Ergonomic" model. My experience tells me that they need to be as close to the top plate and neck block as possible, otherwise the player's body largely covers them up. Sonically, they have the effect of "opening" the sound a bit. With the ports closed, the bass sounds a bit darker and mellower, and perhaps a tad less loud. Also, there is a minor effect of sound emanating toward the player; a kind of "monitor" effect. But it is definately subtle.

James, nice looking craftsmanship there! I'm curious why you chose to install outside linings?

[Ed Fuqua]

JAMES! I gotta have more pics! NOW!!!!
SCROLL
FULL FRONTAL
FULL BACK
FULL SIDE

I'm glad that you got it all up and working, I will definitely have to thump on it next time I'm down. And fondle the top some more

[robobass]

What an idea! To James and other luthiers: What would be involved in retrofitting "the door" to existing basses? Having the ability not only to fine tune the soundpost, but also to more easily work on cracks, rib punches, centerseams, etc. without removing the top, it seems like the cost of adding one to my bass would be offset by the the reduction of future repair costs. Is there a downside? Rattles or loss of structural integrity? If these are non-issues, then it seems to me that every bass should have a door - and the insurance companies should even help pay for it!

[Rvl]

Wow very purdy
In a couple of years (post-retirement dream) I want to go to a Luthier School to study repair and building
Your bass sold me on your school

Thanks

Robert VanLane

[james condino]

Thanks for all of the support and positive comments.

Arnold, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very delicate with my instruments; actually I'm a manic gorilla with them a lot of days, so I put the outside linings on to add a bit of structural strength.

Here is the other end of the spectrum: the solid lathe turned Michigan hard maple endpin. You can see the full depth of the ribs down in the lower region.

There is also a shot of the macassar ebony tailpiece. I like the macassar and have a good seasoned supply of it on hand, so the tailpiece, fingerboard, nut,saddle, and a couple of other appointments are all made from a large 1"x5" x6' board I had on hand. Making the fingerboard from solid stock by hand is always a good workout!

I'm a pretty big fan of low mass all over the instrument, so I drilled the tailpiece out. Tailpieces are like jewelry- I change them out regularly and have several around in different configurations, mass, and materials. I've got another design in the works that I'll post later.

You can also see the nylon tailgut. There have been plenty of discussions about these and a search reveals plenty of opinions and choices. I come at the tailgut wires mainly from the perspective of having spent two decades as an expeditionary mountaineering and river guide, having used hundreds of different styles and thicknesses of cords over the years. All of them got stressed to their limits and my life regularly depended on them, so I know and understand their working strengths under both static and dynamic loads well. I also have a host of suppliers who can get me any strength, diameter, material, or color combination I desire. This one is about 6mm- a bit overkill, but I had a big supply on hand. For other people, I usually use something 4.5-5 mm and generally try to match the color to the windings on their particular brand of stings.

j.

[james condino]

Here are a few images of the anti-scroll. I'm a bit of a scrollphobe; over the years I can't count how many times I've had a gig at some small venue with low ceilings and a raised stage. I spend the entire night cramped over with a backache and my playing (and mood) suffers. There is a local place where I gig regularly that suffers from this. Minimizing the scroll like this allows me to play there all night with a smile. I've played a lot of basses that sounded better before the owner had me glue the broken scroll back on.

The cheeks are more Macassar ebony- from a younger tree with a bit more bold striping. Eventually the tuning machines will get capped in this also. You'll also notice the gut D and G- sounds like and feels like old school heaven when I pitz....

j.

[james condino]

Here are a couple of more with the details of the ported backside. You can also see how low profile the cheeks are and how they taper on two different planes- nice visuals, but it was a pain to drill out for the tuning machines. My mint pre-war Walker Turner drill press was SOOOOOOO nice and accurate for this!

My original intention was to make a headless instrument, like a Steinberger, and mount the tuning machines on the tailpiece. Removing the entire scroll portion of the neck would be a dream for transportation. I didn't want to use a traditional tuning machine for the task; they look pretty poor visually and they have too much mass. The design I'm working on utilizes very low profile roller wheels. The main issue design wise it that upright strings stretch so much more than an electric, so you need a lot of distance in the adjustability range. I haven't given up on it. I'm open to collaboration ideas from anyone who is a good machinist or working mechanical engineer (I'm an ME grad school dropout....). I'd guess that there are some folks on the electric side of talkbass that have a huge wealth of real working knowledge building tuning machines like this.

There will be a BIG section on the main neck design and concept coming up later... probably the next time I change strings and can get some detailed images.

j.

[james condino]

j.