Laborie CF Endpin Question

jlattuada · #1 12-28-2005, 04:50 PM

I am considering having an Laborie Endpin installed. I have been playing with a eggpin and like the angled endpin, but find it a pain to put on and off. Since this involves drilling a new tappered hole I have 2 questions.

How much should I expect to pay to have the endpin installed?

Will doing this significantly change the value of the bass and make selling it more troublesome if I decide to change basses at some point in the future?

I am playing a Quenoil style copy made in 2001.

Thanks

Alex Scott · #2 01-01-2006, 10:09 PM

I think I spent about $50 to get one installed, if not less.

If you are getting a quote, it is helpful to tell them they can use the cello peg-hole reamer, or whatever it is called.

It might be helpful to wait until you can get someone who knows what they are doing to install it. I took mine to a guy who had done a couple, and had an egg pin to show him the angle I wanted to end up with. It turned out fine.

Laborie has been going to the George Vance camps for a while, maybe he can set it up.

As far as resale value, I really don't know, but I have heard it is pretty easy to plug the whole and varnish over the top of it. This is helpful too if you are not happy with the placement, they can fill it up and when that glue dries cut a new hole.

Good Luck.

STRONGBOW · #3 01-02-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlattuada

I am considering having an Laborie Endpin installed. I have been playing with a eggpin and like the angled endpin, but find it a pain to put on and off. Since this involves drilling a new tappered hole I have 2 questions.

How much should I expect to pay to have the endpin installed?

Will doing this significantly change the value of the bass and make selling it more troublesome if I decide to change basses at some point in the future?

I am playing a Quenoil style copy made in 2001.

Thanks

Hello--

I am a big advocate of the Laborie CF angled endpin and have it installed on all three of my basses: an 1860 flatback, a 1933 Jaeger and a vintage King Moretone. There are basically 2 ways to drill the hole: 1) In the original location recommended by Francois Rabbath & Laborie, which is dead center on the bottom seam, about 1 inch from the back table and at a 44 degree angle and 2) to drill the hole to one side of the seam, so that the bass angles to one side instead of straight back-- and this is the way one leading professional prefers it. I had a friend who had his bass drilled to one side and later was upset with that, so he took it back to the (well-known) shop that did that, and they fit a wood plug into the original off-set hole and then re-drilled it the way LaBorie does it. So a skilled luthier could plug the hole if you think it would detract the value. I had Christian Laborie drill and install the endpins on two of my basses-- the Jaeger and the 1860 flatback. He charged $15 to drill and ream the holes. The endpin itself runs $60. Total is $75 and it takes 15 minutes. You have to have the pin cut down according to your own height, however and it is important you know how long/short it should be beforehand. When it came time to drill the King laminated bass, Christian wasn't around so I took the King to Potter's Shop in Washington DC and their bass luthier drilled and reamed the hole for me in a few minutes over a lunch hour. Its really no big deal, but you have no idea what this does for playing and hearing the instrument until you switch over. I can't play on a conventional straight pin anymore...the angled position is just too comfortable. I did replace the little round ball on my Laborie pin with a good old fashioned crutchtip, however. The little round ball works fine, I suppose, on wooden stages of concert venues, but doesn't cut it if your'e set up on a concrete or lineoleum or other composite type of floor-- they slip and give way. So substituting a crutch tip is no big deal. Hope this helps. Take the plunge!

plester102 · #4 01-02-2006, 09:14 AM

Hi;

Not to hijack the thread but, can anyone recommend a luthier in or around Portland Oregon who has experience installing the Laborie?

Thanks,

Paul

jlattuada · #5 01-02-2006, 11:50 AM

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will probably take it to Potter's in DC. I have had work done there for my Cello. Thanks for all of the useful advice. Much appreciated.

Joseph

dperrott · #6 01-03-2006, 07:52 AM

I also use a Laborie endpin and love it. After playing on it, its
hard to play a bass with a standard endpin. I know that Rufus
Reid used an egg-pin to find the proper spot for his Laborie
pin. He used an egg pin to find the proper balance point and
drilled the Laborie to match. His is off center. Mine isn't. I do
need to change my Laborie tip to a crutch tip. Mine slids on
some surfaces too.

STRONGBOW · #7 01-03-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlattuada

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I will probably take it to Potter's in DC. I have had work done there for my Cello. Thanks for all of the useful advice. Much appreciated.

Joseph

Yes, Potter's bass man handled that for me just fine, and they charged me so little to drill and ream that hole I was embarrassed. Of course, I already owned the pin-- as far as I know, you can't get them from Potter. You should contact George Vance, SLAVA Publishers, in Silver Spring MD and you can purchase the carbon fibre endpin blank (technically marketed by Slava as "graphite") with little rubber ball, from him. He has quick turnaround and as far as I know George has the exclusive distributorship in the U.S. for this item. But give him a call-- he's a great guy and can give you further valuable advice on how long or short to trim the rod, according to your height. George has a website (www.Slavapub.net) with an on-line ordering service. At last check the Laborie CF endpin rod blank with ball was $60.

For more complicated bass work and a bit more personal attention in the Nation's Capital, I recommend John Lamoine. I caution that John only does work for professional players, advanced amateurs and highly advanced students. He is the luthier for the National Symphony Orchestra and the Washington Opera Company. John is very highly recommended by the professional string community in Washington. If you want his number contact me off-line. Hope this is helpful.

beingbecoming · #8 01-21-2006, 01:47 PM

the new laborie pins have a wooden piece that connects to the bass, fiberglass shaft/stick, and the ball is made out of new rubber that won't side.. if you see christian he will switch balls with you for no cost i believe

take care

www.johnromey.com

DaveAceofBass · #9 01-22-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beingbecoming

the new laborie pins have a wooden piece that connects to the bass, fiberglass shaft/stick, and the ball is made out of new rubber that won't side.. if you see christian he will switch balls with you for no cost i believe

take care

www.johnromey.com

I see you are a Rabbath man... I too am trying to learn more about his virtuostic technique. I would like to know what type of bass you play....I'm in the market for a new one. I'm trying to keep it $10,000 or less. I checked out the Kolstein Guarneri and liked it, and I want to try a Rumano Solano Quenoil copy and a Laborie Q bass. The best bass I've ever played was a Laborie Quenoil copy, but they are about $25,000, which is way out of my price range. Let me know what you think of any of these, or anything else... I don't want a small sounding bass since I'm going for the sloped shoulders....is it possible to have a big sound for both orchestral and jazz, yet have the sloped shoulders ala Rabbath's Quenoil bass?

JoeyNaeger · #10 01-22-2006, 07:30 PM

Every Solano bass I've played on, I've liked (and I've played on 7 or 8 including mine) however I've never played on a quenoil copy by him. If its a bass thats easy to reach around you want, his sort of standard 3/4 size bass has fairly sloped shoulders and can be had for less than 10,000. Ymmv.

jlattuada · #11 01-22-2006, 08:02 PM

I have a Solano Quenoil copy and love it.

DaveAceofBass · #12 01-23-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlattuada

I have a Solano Quenoil copy and love it.

Yes, we've spoken before... You're in Richmond, right? Would you mind if I planned a trip up your way and tried your bass? Can you clue me in to the price range? Do you play in any orchestras, or just solo and/or jazz?

bassbaterie · #13 04-21-2006, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveAceofBass

..is it possible to have a big sound for both orchestral and jazz, yet have the sloped shoulders ala Rabbath's Quenoil bass?

I've had a bass out on trial from Robertson's, a 2003 Gyorgy Baranyi, very sloped shoulders, large lower bout, very big orchestra sound, love it, under $10,000, am reluctantly returning it as my other bass just won't sell in time to buy it. www.robertsonviolins.com inquire to Aaron. From what you describe you are looking for, I bet you'd love this bass.

Has anyone gotten a Q-bass from George/Slava - I would like to try one before pulling the trigger on a purchase (now that more time will go by) - I only just learned what they were called, having called them "those pointy ones" for years, shame on me.

Gimme one o them pointy ones!

tappingtrance · #14 04-21-2006, 03:10 PM

Definitely talk to George Vance - he can hook you up. Christian drilled both of my basses and I bought one of Francois basses from him - a Grunert copy of his bass made in 1985. The thing you got to get used to is seeing Christian drill your bass - it is painful but he is a master. He will probably be at George's camp agina this year - stop by and in quicker than a root canal it will be done. www.slavapub.net I believe.
Talk to George.

Cooke Harvey

bassbaterie · #15 04-21-2006, 03:32 PM

I ended up drilling it myself as I was working with a luthier who was new to the process and at the last second he handed me the drill (I am a woodworker and was putting a lot of pressure on him to do this for me when he would have preferred to wait until we built a jig for it). What a surprise I effed the angle on the first one up, but got it plugged and corrected to where it's workable. The second one I got right where I wanted it, though I wouldn't drill a hole in anyone else's bass for love or money. Totally sold on the endpin.

Got a "thunderbolt" view of one of the Quenoil style basses recently; a friend in a big rush passed through the room carrying his beautiful Laborie that I had never seen out of its case before. He paused and turned just a moment and I was struck blind like Saul on the road to Damascus. My God, that bass, can't get it off my mind now. Will see what George can fix me up with. Yes I would very much like to visit his workshop so will ask him about it.

.matthew e wengerd. · #16 04-28-2006, 12:29 PM

I see one or two references to what people paid to have the Laborie endpin installed. Is $15-30 for installation plus the endpin the norm?

bassbaterie · #17 04-28-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .matthew e wengerd.

I see one or two references to what people paid to have the Laborie endpin installed. Is $15-30 for installation plus the endpin the norm?

There's not really an 'installation', it's just a hole. The endpin just sticks in there by friction. Once in a while you have to put a piece of gaff tape around it if it loosens up. The coolest thing is how low-tech it is. Since it doesn't store inside the bass, you have to remember it! NOTHING worse than finding out you have nothing to get your bass up off the floor. The last concert I played, it was sitting next to my stand and the stage crew put it away with the marimba mallets!!

.matthew e wengerd. · #18 04-28-2006, 02:11 PM

right, but someone has to drill the hole, unless you plan on doing that yourself, and ream the hole (i don't own a cello endpin reamer). People are probably gonna charge for that, right?

bassbaterie · #19 04-28-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .matthew e wengerd.

right, but someone has to drill the hole, unless you plan on doing that yourself, and ream the hole (i don't own a cello endpin reamer). People are probably gonna charge for that, right?

That's right; sorry to have been obtuse about it. I've heard prices ranging from $15 to $40 to drill the hole. Some people talked about reaming it; some did not.

bass-me-up · #20 10-26-2006, 07:41 AM

i'm thinking about using a "Laborie style" endpin on my yamaha slb-200 EUB. does anybody have any idea if that works? the endpin of my EUB is much longer and thicker than that of a double bass.

all i want is the angle of the endpin. i thought about a 44degree carbon fibre endpin but i'm not sure where to get one or if i can make one on my own.

any thought's on that?

steffen
http://www.bass-me-up.de