Low B string on top for Fiver

[Dr Rod]

Many people have difficulties with 5 string basses, and I have never shared those opinions. Except for one complaint: basically in the orchestra one plays mostly the top 3 strings, especially the top two strings, which means that that you spend most of your time reaching over with your bow arm. On the other hand, the E and B strings which are very accessible are not used as much.

My question is: has anyone put the B string on top while keeping the other strings "normal"? so in effect the tuning starting from the top would be:

I-low B
II-G
III-D
IV-A
V-E


I understand the difficulties this might present in terms of fingerings and string crossings, that doesn't concern me so much.

What does concern me is the actual setup and lower frequency response on the treble side of the top plate.

comments ?

[uprightben]

That would probably work allright, allthough the internal structure of of a db is not symetrical. You might lose some low end on the b string with it being right on top of the sound post. From a players stand point, I don't feel the the location of the low strings makes them easier to bow, but if you have a fiver string it up however you want, it's your bass.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by uprightben

That would probably work allright, allthough the internal structure of of a db is not symetrical. You might lose some low end on the b string with it being right on top of the sound post. From a players stand point, I don't feel the the location of the low strings makes them easier to bow, but if you have a fiver string it up however you want, it's your bass.

thanks for your reply.

It's the first time in 17 years that I don't own a fiver, but I am keeping an eye open for one.

[Paul Warburton]

Good luck accessing your G string with the bow with that fat low B on top.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Good luck accessing your G string with the bow with that fat low B on top.

it's only a matter of setup

you would be right if I left everything unchanged but I am not planning on doing that

[Paul Warburton]

Good luck, but I agree with Ben.....I'm thinking unless you do something about bridge placement, huge SP placement issues, and bass bar issues, that B on top will act like a mute.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Good luck, but I agree with Ben.....I'm thinking unless you do something about bridge placement, huge SP placement issues, and bass bar issues, that B on top will act like a mute.

if you have a minute to share what bridge placement or other measures could be taken, I would very much benefit from that.



I don't know if your concern has to do with tension?

Having more tension on the treble side is not a problem, Pirastro usually makes its string sets with a higher tension for the G than the lower strings.

[Paul Warburton]

As you know, string instruments are designed the way they are now for specific reasons with a few hundred years of history behind that.
I play a fiver with the low B on the bottom (I think you know that, as well). The bass bar is on the bass side and the SP is on the treble side. Those two parts are the most important parts in the string instrument family for specific reasons that haven't been changed through all those years because nobody has come up with something better.
That big fat Low B is going to mute your bass.....period.....even if you put Thomastik Stark Strings on the other four. They are, IME, the highest tension strings out there.
Again, I agree with Ben...it will be your bass, and your $ to throw at it. Only one way to find out, I guess.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

That big fat Low B is going to mute your bass.....period.....even if you put Thomastik Stark Strings on the other four.

I am thankful for the fact that your sharing your views.

Your quoted statement above might be 100% correct, but we won't know until someone tries. Unfortunately I don't have a fiver at the moment.

Tradition and proven methods are extremely important, I agree, however I personally think that if we had not experimented we would not have bridge adjusters, steel or composite strings, detachable necks, low C extensions etc... which are all things that are useful. Just to name a few.

[Chris Symer]

I'm thinking that even with a relatively low tension B string you will still have issues with the mass of the thing on the bridge. I say big mute also. I'm also wondering what problem you are trying to solve. Sounds like you will create as many or more string crossing issues as you are trying to fix, IMMO.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Chris Symer

I'm thinking that even with a relatively low tension B string you will still have issues with the mass of the thing on the bridge. I say big mute also. I'm also wondering what problem you are trying to solve. Sounds like you will create as many or more string crossing issues as you are trying to fix, IMMO.

there aren't any string crossing issues to be fixed.

my shoulder hurts from reaching out to the G and D strings, while the less-used B strings stands there at easy reach.

[Chris Symer]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

It's the first time in 17 years that I don't own a fiver, but I am keeping an eye open for one.

Really? And your shoulder hurts from reaching all the way across that unused (nonexistant) B string? Although the experiment with string placement may be interesting, I think that maybe, just maybe, your shoulder hurting could be caused by something else.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Chris Symer

Really? And your shoulder hurts from reaching all the way across that unused (nonexistant) B string?

obviously I meant that "in the past, when playing a 5 string bass my shoulder hurt...."

[Heifetzbass]

Sounds like you need a low B extension...

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

Sounds like you need a low B extension...

you have a point !



thanks

[Paul Warburton]

Well, Duh.

Man, you didn't say anything about your pain issues until half way through the Thread. I had no clue you were thinking of doing this for anything involving that.
Again, good luck.

[Dr Rod]

well, not having a fiver at the moment, I took one of my four string basses, took off the G string and slapped on a Thomastik Stark Low B. It's an old string and just an experiment so I didn't widen the grooves or anything like that. I had a hard time keeping the string from slipping out of the nut.

Well, I am pleased to say that the results were good. Basically it sounded normal, it didn't mute the bass, but it didn't rattle the building either (it's a smallish bass, not really meant for that).

The clearance to the second string was horrible, the fingerboard was too near the string, and the silk of the string was sitting right on the bridge, so I think that with a proper setup this might really be viable.

Will it sound as good as a low B at the bottom? probably not, but I am pleased to say that I am encouraged by the results.


thanks


Rod

[robobass]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

there aren't any string crossing issues to be fixed.

my shoulder hurts from reaching out to the G and D strings, while the less-used B strings stands there at easy reach.

Not to turn this into a 5er vs. extension debate, but I find that having five strings makes both the G and B harder to reach. I played on a Poellman 5er for many years. It wasn't huge widthwise, but was quite deep. To get to the G, I kept it turned in toward me more than I would with a 4er, reducing access to the B. At the same time, because it was stiffer and deeper than a 4er (OK, enough with the jokes!), I had to raise my arm more to get to the G and also press harder, which did take a toll on my shoulder.

Addressing the original question, placing the low B as the first string would solve these problems, but I can't believe it wouldn't mess up the tonal response. Also, the G as the top string is freedom! You can let loose, and don't have to be quite as precise with your hair angle, so you can concentrate on other things. So yes, why not just go for an extension?

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by robobass

I had to raise my arm more to get to the G and also press harder, which did take a toll on my shoulder.

A

precisely

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by robobass

placing the low B as the first string would solve these problems, but I can't believe it wouldn't mess up the tonal response.

the first experiment was encouraging, see my previous post, but the final verdict is still out

this will also be different from one bass to the other, just like extensions