Luthiers Advice Requested

AuxOne · #1 09-16-2010, 08:23 AM

I've found several people with basses for sale on craigslist, and have visited several; the one I saw last night seemed like the best. There are a few concerns I have regarding the condition and I'd really appreciate comments on it.

My camera on my phone sucks so I don't have any pictures, although I feel I can describe it well. The bass is made by "West Coast Strings" and is the Rosalia model. It retails for $5800 on their website but the kid who is selling it says he got it for $3500 at a brick and mortar shop. It's fully carved, and based on the sounds and look of it I would say that is true.

So, the issues likely stem from one day where the kid slipped on ice with it pretty bad:

1. There's a crack that was repaired along the right ribs; it's over a foot long but doesn't really seem of much concern.

2. The part of the neck that attaches to the body (dovetail?) is cracked almost in half, at an angle, nearer the back of the bass. This has been fixed with 2 wood screws and glue.

3. There is a 1.5 inch crack on either side of the neck, starting from where the nut meets the fingerboard, and going at about a 45 degree angle downward. It looks as if the scroll was hit by something by the front; so the pull of the string seems to be pulling the crack closed, not further open.

4. The nut is so low that you couldn't get a business card up to it from under the strings, but not so low that it buzzes a lot.

If it came down to it, how much would it cost just to get a new neck since it seems to be the problem area?

Is there any preventative action that can be taken to stop the neck from breaking?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Eric Hochberg · #2 09-16-2010, 08:45 AM

Take it to a bass luthier for a once over if you want, but I'd keep looking for something without neck repairs unless this is a steal...

AuxOne · #3 09-16-2010, 09:22 AM

He is asking $2200 but he admitted that he would go down as low as $1800-1900 because he already bought a new bass on a payment plan and is desperately trying to sell the old so he can avoid paying interest on the new.

AuxOne · #4 09-20-2010, 08:48 AM

So, I kept telling the seller that the neck crack really looks serious, and since the dovetail has already been messed up I think it needs a new neck. He admitted that the neck is actually the reason he is selling and he hoped people wouldn't notice. Now he's ready to sell for $500 flat out. This is a steal right? It's originally a $3500 carved bass.

How much is a new neck? Are there any complications with the fact that he had to put two screws in the dovetail to keep it on the body? (You know like, maybe the body needs work too because of the screws).

Thanks

Cody Sisk · #5 09-20-2010, 09:28 AM

If the dovetail is broken on the neck, it's likely that the neckblock is broken too. It's quite possible that you'll need a new neck block as well. This will require taking the top off again assuming it was taken off for the rib repair.

Wood screws are NEVER a good thing. I would assume that the repair workmanship is quite shoddy on everything else if they put screws in the neck. My advise is to walk away..

tornadobass · #6 09-20-2010, 10:40 AM

I'd be careful of this brand. I tried one of their hybrids that had several cracks in the fingerboard even before it left the show. They also use a stretchy nylon tailgut that needs to be replaced if you are interested in intonation.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #7 09-20-2010, 12:03 PM

Not that I'm remotely qualified to weigh in, but if I was in your shoes I'd walk away on principle. The guy flat-out told you he was hoping to get a buyer who wouldn't notice the bass was a wreck and might cost thousands to make right. That's sleazy. If somebody I knew got ripped off through a scam like that, I'd be on the phone to the boys in the black pajamas.

He's also desperate enough to be rid of it that he went from $2200 to $500 in the space of four days, which makes me wonder what else is hiding in there that he hasn't fessed up to yet. Pass.

drurb · #8 09-20-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuxOne

...He admitted that the neck is actually the reason he is selling and he hoped people wouldn't notice.

What?! This ****er was willing to take someone's $2200. Yup, KUNGfu has it right!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUNGfuSHERIFF

...I'd walk away on principle. The guy flat-out told you he was hoping to get a buyer who wouldn't notice the bass was a wreck and might cost thousands to make right. ...makes me wonder what else is hiding in there that he hasn't fessed up to yet. Pass.

AuxOne · #9 09-20-2010, 01:11 PM

Here are some actual photos. Regarding the scam he was trying to pull, I think it's almost a good thing because I caught him in it so now his price is much lower partly trying to regain my interest which means deeper discount that if he would have be upfront with it. Bad move on his part.

Notice the crazy low nut as well.

AuxOne · #10 09-20-2010, 01:11 PM

This is the previous repair.

Jake deVilliers · #11 09-20-2010, 01:39 PM

That is classic cheesy Chinese neck wood - weak and unstable. Walk away from that DB and find something better. Be patient, your bass is out there.

AuxOne · #12 09-20-2010, 01:44 PM

Ok. $600 is hard to refuse, but you guys are right! Thanks for the feedback!

My second choice is this 10 year old Korean bass the guy doesn't know the specific maker of, but it's fully carved and I think it sounds good. That one I could talk down to $1800, but I have a little more money but not enough to buy new apparently.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #13 09-20-2010, 02:07 PM

AuxOne, where are you? I just had a conversation by e-mail with Geoff from the Bass Garden here in New York, who has an interesting solid wood bass for $1200. He says the back and sides are +/- 100-year-old Czech, with the top and neck grafted on apparently from two other instruments. Not having played it I have no idea how successful the surgery was, but considering that it's solid wood and in your price range, available on 10-day trial, and NOT the property of an admitted scumbag, it's probably worth a phone call.

Paul Warburton · #14 09-20-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuxOne

It retails for $5800 on their website but the kid who is selling it says he got it for $3500 at a brick and mortar shop.

1st DB buying rule: Never buy a bass from a brick and mortar shop.

AuxOne · #15 09-20-2010, 02:18 PM

KungFu,
I'm actually in Bushwick, Brooklyn. I looked up Bass Garden and they are in Yonkers which isn't too far. I'll make a point to stop by there. Being someone of limited knowledge of luthiery, I often go by look, price, claims, age, and of course sound.

When I think of the Frankenstein bass you just described, my head tells me "That must be expensive to find 100 year old wood and perform the surgery. It must either sound like crap, or have some other issue to be that cheap." How IS it that cheap?

AuxOne · #16 09-20-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

1st DB buying rule: Never buy a bass from a brick and mortar shop.

Is this a sarcastic joke to say don't buy an instrument from a masonry supply store?

If you are serious, where else are you going to get a bass?! Second hand?

Cody Sisk · #17 09-20-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuxOne

This is the previous repair.

Yeeeesh! Something you should strongly consider if you're still even remotely fixated on that bass, wood will expand and contract with seasonal changes, metal will not. It's only a matter of time before the tension of the strings works those screws loose and the neck comes apart again. I charge a hefty fee for screw removal when attempting to repair a neck that had been butchered before. I'm sure my colleagues here do the same. It's extremely labor-intensive and frustrating work often leading to a replacement of the neck all together.

You will have that bass back in a reputable luthier's shop for neck repair at some point guaranteed, expect a 4-digit price tag as well. If you don't spend the money up front, you will later..

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #18 09-20-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuxOne

When I think of the Frankenstein bass you just described, my head tells me "That must be expensive to find 100 year old wood and perform the surgery. It must either sound like crap, or have some other issue to be that cheap." How IS it that cheap?

Dunno. Call him. Can I ask why you're looking for a new instrument? Most folks seem to prefer a bass with a few miles on it.

AuxOne · #19 09-20-2010, 02:49 PM

Dallas,
A well known luthier in my area says they replace necks for around $2500, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to stay away.

KungFu,
I do like older basses. I'm just trying to do the math in my head and it makes me wonder how they can afford to use 100 year old woods in a $1200 bass. I think buying new can be a mistake as the sound isn't fully realized and since I live in NY I'd like to make sure it's seen a few seasons of humidity changes. I'd LOVE a bass that has 100 year old parts in it, but the price tag scares me because it's too cheap.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP GUYS!!!