Machines

61pollmann · #1 01-23-2008, 02:15 PM

I'm looking for feedback on what are considered two of the best bass machines available today--the Sloan and the Krutz. I believe that David Gage sells the Sloan, and KC Strings sells the Krutz. I've seen them both used on some high quality basses. The gear ratios seem to be fairly high for more precise tuning. Any comments regarding quality and functionality would be appreciated. Also, luthiers, what about installation ease and cost?

Thanks in advance,

George

Don Harris · #2 01-23-2008, 05:58 PM

I've got both types on different basses and they both work great. The Sloanes are geared lower (you have to turn them more) which is nice for everyday tuning, but when I'm loosening and tightening the strings all the time (messing around with soundpost, fitting the bridge, adjusters, etc) I like that the KC String tuners are quicker. Also, the little plastic speed winders won't fit on my Sloanes but do on the KC Strings tuners. Both are smooth. There are good instructions on the KC Strings website for installing. The Sloanes cost more. I've installed the KC Strings ones, not the Sloanes.

jallenbass · #3 01-23-2008, 07:30 PM

What about the ones from Lemur or Cremonasia?

eh_train · #4 01-24-2008, 12:01 PM

JAllen,

Cremonasia doesn't seem to be an option, if you check the current thread (in repair and setup) re. Jacques Gagnon. Then again, if you know of anyone who has a supply on hand...

Cheers,

Paul (eh_train)

toman · #5 01-24-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Harris

I've got both types on different basses and they both work great. The Sloanes are geared lower (you have to turn them more) which is nice for everyday tuning, but when I'm loosening and tightening the strings all the time (messing around with soundpost, fitting the bridge, adjusters, etc) I like that the KC String tuners are quicker. Also, the little plastic speed winders won't fit on my Sloanes but do on the KC Strings tuners. Both are smooth. There are good instructions on the KC Strings website for installing. The Sloanes cost more. I've installed the KC Strings ones, not the Sloanes.

I modified my string winders by cutting slots in the sides to fit wider, errr, buttons? Might help, unless thickness is the issue.

Don Harris · #6 01-24-2008, 05:11 PM

With the Sloane cello style knobs it was the thickness that made my winder not fit.

Bob Branstetter · #7 01-24-2008, 08:39 PM

Both are excellent, but KC Strings are more reasonably priced. I've never heard a complaint from anyone about the quality or performance of the KC Strings machines.

61pollmann · #8 01-26-2008, 02:00 PM

The KC gears are $360 and the Sloans are $395. Not a big difference. I guess the installation cost might also be different. Any comments on this part of the cost?

Bob Branstetter · #9 01-26-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61pollmann

The KC gears are $360 and the Sloans are $395. Not a big difference. I guess the installation cost might also be different. Any comments on this part of the cost?

The installation charge would be the same at my shop. If the $35 cost difference isn't a consideration, pick the one that looks the best to you. I've never weighed the two, but the KC Strings looks like it might be a little lighter.

61pollmann · #10 02-01-2008, 03:23 PM

Are the Sloans and/or KCs mortised into the cheek of the pegbox like the traditional french machines, or are they surface-mounted like the cheaper individual ones commonly found today? Some of the surface mounted ones are quite easy to install.

George

toman · #11 02-01-2008, 06:44 PM

Anyone else find surface mounted machines irritating? Maybe its just me, but it seems like something more appropriate on an electric guitar.

Dr Rod · #12 02-02-2008, 03:39 PM

there is someone in the Chicago area that makes these beautiful copies of old machines. I wish I knew his name.

Dr Rod · #13 02-02-2008, 03:45 PM

here it is

http://www.gallerystrings.com/access...eads/index.htm

arnoldschnitzer · #14 02-02-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

Anyone else find surface mounted machines irritating? Maybe its just me, but it seems like something more appropriate on an electric guitar.

I believe surface mounted machines are superior. I see hundreds of basses every year, and I find that there are many more cracked scrolls on basses where the machines have been mortised into the scroll cheeks. There are two reasons: 1) scroll cheeks are not very thick and bear a lot of strain (not to mention the battering they endure); taking away wood in that area isn't the best idea; 2) the mortised machines, especially if they are rectangular, restrain the wood's ability to expand and contract. Then a crack is likely to develop right on the edge of a machine.

Luthiers who mortise their machines into the scroll like to do a really nice, tight job. If they would leave a little space around the edges cracking would be less of an issue. But who wants to do a sloppy job?

My $.02 on the machine question at the top: I've been really enjoying the Sloan tuners with the Baker pegs now that they have made aluminum shafts available. The shafts are anodized to match the rest of the tuning machine and the weight saving is substantial. The gear ratio is slow for my taste but the precision is super.

toman · #15 02-02-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I believe surface mounted machines are superior. I see hundreds of basses every year, and I find that there are many more cracked scrolls on basses where the machines have been mortised into the scroll cheeks. There are two reasons: 1) scroll cheeks are not very thick and bear a lot of strain (not to mention the battering they endure); taking away wood in that area isn't the best idea; 2) the mortised machines, especially if they are rectangular, restrain the wood's ability to expand and contract. Then a crack is likely to develop right on the edge of a machine.

Luthiers who mortise their machines into the scroll like to do a really nice, tight job. If they would leave a little space around the edges cracking would be less of an issue. But who wants to do a sloppy job?

My $.02 on the machine question at the top: I've been really enjoying the Sloan tuners with the Baker pegs now that they have made aluminum shafts available. The shafts are anodized to match the rest of the tuning machine and the weight saving is substantial. The gear ratio is slow for my taste but the precision is super.

Thanks for those thoughts; I hadn't even taken the issues into consideration, just asthetics. Maybe when I upgrade my machines I'll go for plates instead of mortises. Morti? Hmmm...

61pollmann · #16 02-06-2008, 09:58 PM

I just went back to the Gage website. Apparently the Sloans have jumped in price since I last looked. They are now $632.00. Quite a jump, and makes the KC Strings machines very attractive.

George

Bob Branstetter · #17 02-06-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61pollmann

I just went back to the Gage website. Apparently the Sloans have jumped in price since I last looked. They are now $632.00. Quite a jump, and makes the KC Strings machines very attractive.

George

I suggest that you buy them ASAP. With the US Dollar current low exchange rate, the wholesale prices of many, if not most, bass related supplies have been raising almost daily.

Brad Maestas · #18 02-07-2008, 02:03 AM

I've been using the Krutz machines since they first started making them. My 1998 Krutz bass came with one of the first versions of the tuners and they've held up great over the years.

The first ones they made were given an ink or paint treatment on the tuner knobs that were intended to lend an antique look however, I found that the ink had a nasty habit of transferring to my fingers and then eventually to my white shirt. They have since abandoned the antiquing treatment and their tuners are straight brass which I like. Mine also don't have the billeting on the tuning gears like the new ones. My old tuners are quite charming with their warm patina but I really would like to try a set of their new ones on my bass. I'm glad that they seem to have been continuously upgrading their design and manufacturing and are currently offering a very formidable tuner.

I have thought about getting the Sloanes but their high cost has kept me away. They look nice and their higher ratio can be both a hindrance and a blessing but the Krutzes have served me well and have given me no reason to look elsewhere. After all, they came with the bass! Still, though, the cost/performance ratio is better, IMO, with the Krutz tuners. The Sloanes seem to offer little advantage over the Krutzes so I'm quite content.