Making a neck thicker?

philip sirois · #1 10-24-2006, 07:03 AM

To the luthiers on board as well as anyone with an idea:

I have a wilfer hybrid with the notorious thin neck. I really have developed a connection with this bass but the neck is starting to bother me a little. I was wondering about the possibility of adding a maple "firring" strip down the length of the neck to add a little girth. My idea is that the strip would be around 1/8" thick and about 1 1/4 "wide, fitted tight to the neck. Basically covering the area where your thumb would go, tapering( in thickness) gradually as it approaches the body of the bass.
Now I know this isn't the most elegant solution, but It's preferable, at least, to replacing the neck, which I can't afford. It would also be a reversible operation, since the strip could be hyde glued in place. It also could be tweaked for thickness once in place.

any Ideas about this?

phil

Chasarms · #2 10-24-2006, 08:10 AM

The most common approach I have seen to this is to add a strip of wood between the fingerboard and the neck.

That is, remove the fb, add the wood and replace the board. This modification also allows the geometry of the bass to be adjusted if desired, as the strip can be cut into a wedge to change the fb's angle to the body. I believe our own Ken Smith has a bass that has this treatment.

In your case a strip of even thickness would simply add depth to the neck.

TheSuzie · #3 10-24-2006, 09:29 AM

John Styklunas did this one for me. I have also played an Engelhardt that received similar treatment from John. I'm really pleased with the work though I may (or may not...) have a tiny bit of final shaping done at some point. I will have to post about all the changes to my bass at some point.

Peace,
S

Bob Branstetter · #4 10-24-2006, 09:51 AM

If it were mine, I would probably replace the fingerboard with a new (thicker) ebony board. From an esthetics standpoint it can't be beat and it will add some stiffness to that thin neck. It is possible to put a strip of maple between the existing fingerboard and the neck, but old fingerboards don't always come off cleanly and getting everything lined up, glued and shaped properly is not the easiest job in the world.

TheSuzie · #5 10-24-2006, 11:57 AM

BTW the shim on mine is maple and was added while replacing an old beveled rosewood fingerboard with a much thicker radiused ebony board. At least 1/4" was removed from the back of the neck, which had a sharp V profile in order to get a more C shaped profile. He also had to fit a new top bridge half onto the old legs and adjusters. The adjusters were already too far out and the neck/fb mods took things way out of the range. All worth it in the end as these plus all the other updates have added up to a much better instrument in both feel and sound.

Peace,
S

Bob Branstetter · #6 10-24-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Make the shim from Ebony.

IMO, an ebony shim offers no advantage what so ever over maple. Ebony is much harder to work and adds nothing but unneccessary weight.

Ed Fuqua · #7 10-24-2006, 12:24 PM

I gotta go with Bob's advice. I had Jeff put on a thicker fingerboard precisely for this reason.

Bob Branstetter · #8 10-24-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Bob, Biase removed the Maple shims that were in there already, 3 of them overlapping. The tone is much better now.

OK Ken. We all know how much you like ebony. I don't know anyone else who would put ebony cheek plates on a bass. While we have no way of knowing now, the fact that you replaced THREE (3) overlapping maple shims with ONE has probably got more to do with it than being of ebony instead of maple. Maybe next time you can get Arnold to do a neck graft for you entirely of ebony. Talk about being strong

philip sirois · #9 10-24-2006, 07:42 PM

uh-oh, the old'uns are a squabblin again

Bob Branstetter · #10 10-24-2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

And besides Bob, if I find a piece of Ebony big enough for a neck graft, I'll make a 'walking stick' out of it which is a better use of it I think.. Don't you?

I wouldn't know Ken. I'm not the one with the ebony fetish.

Martin Sheridan · #11 11-03-2006, 07:34 PM

Before we go adding wood, please tell us what is too thin? Give us some accurate measurements to go by and pics if you have them.

Ken, that picture of all the ebony gives me the willeys. I'd rather see a neck graft.

Bob Branstetter · #12 11-03-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Ken, that picture of all the ebony gives me the willeys. I'd rather see a neck graft.

Martin, that has to be a first. We actually totally agree on something!

Bob Branstetter · #13 11-03-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

A neck graft instead of correcting the previous bad Shim? Cummon guys, who's gonna spring for that one?

With all your money - Give me a break!

robobass · #14 11-08-2006, 02:53 PM

I'm just surprised that some people don't like working with ebony. Even more surprised that anyone would prefer maple for shaping/cutting/finishing. Now, I have spent most of my shop life shaping light metal, acrylic and specialized model-making composites than wood, but I find ebony to be the most dimensionally stable, predictable, and non grain-centric wood I have ever worked with.
Robobass

TheSuzie · #15 11-08-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

I'm just surprised that some people don't like working with ebony. Even more surprised that anyone would prefer maple for shaping/cutting/finishing. Now, I have spent most of my shop life shaping light metal, acrylic and specialized model-making composites than wood, but I find ebony to be the most dimensionally stable, predictable, and non grain-centric wood I have ever worked with.
Robobass

Two possibilities I can think of but I am a non-luthier home hacker with more experience on metalwork and guitars than on fine woodwork and double basses.

1. From the standpoint of a customer - For something like a neck shim where a thick new ebony board is already to be installed, it gets expensive and adds a lot of weight. In my case with an inexpensive bass, I wanted to invest that money in other parts of the bass.

2. From working with guitar bridges in the past - I wonder if ebony is easier to work with certain tools meant for metal than with tools meant for less dense woods. I found myself wishing for a Bridgeport set on high speed more than once when trying to shorten an ebony or rosewood guitar bridge. Time is money and tools cost money too.

Peace,
S

Bob Branstetter · #16 11-08-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Bob, same money as yours. Just a bunch of dead Presidents.

It's not the quality of the money Ken, it's the quantity

I'm quite sure Ken knows that our objection to the all that ebony is the WEIGHT. Ken does not believe that adding extra weight to the neck has any consequences as far a sound is concerned. I happen to believe otherwise. And... before he comes back with the "you've got to play this bass and hear how great it sounds" argument, I have to say that it is a testament to the quality of the bass that it sounds so good INSPITE of all that extra, unnecessary weight.

Bob Branstetter · #17 11-09-2006, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Maybe a Neck Graft would be better in the long run traditionally but I think for now, it works just fine and it's the best it's been tone/sound-wise since I got it.

I rest my case. Let the next owner fix it.

Shimming huge, then carving away the maple to make it playable...isn't that a bit backwards?

Bob Branstetter · #18 11-09-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

If you buy the Bass, paint the ebony shim maple colored and you will love it just the same..

That would be like touching up the X-Rays so you don't need surgery.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #19 11-09-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

That would be like touching up the X-Rays so you don't need surgery.

You only hurt the ones you love, Bob.

robobass · #20 11-09-2006, 05:31 PM

Is there really a huge difference in weight between maple and ebony? For a 1/4" thick neck shim, are we talking more than 100 grams?

As to shaping issues, perhaps maple is nicer if you are using hand planes, but if you are talking about disc sanders, etc., and you are having problems with ebony, you might not be using the best abrasive media. Check out Klingspor at http://www.sandingcatalog.com/
The stuff they sell at home depot is real crap, and not cheaper.
I keep myself stocked with top quality sandpaper, and replace discs and belts often. It's a small price to pay.
Robobass