Neck repair on Anton Schuster bass

pianodan · #1 12-18-2008, 05:47 PM

Hi all,
I'm looking for input on how the neck is attached on an Anton Schuster bass. To start with, I'm no stranger to the luthier world, I rebuilt my first violin when I was in 8th grade and I've done repairs and rebuilds on many violins, violas, guitars, a couple of cellos and re-glued, re-finished and reset the neck on my C-1 Kay bass about 20 years ago.
Now, back to the Anton. It belongs to the orchestra I play in and someone that should never have touched it did a horrible job on the neck (and other areas). It apparently had been dropped hard, and as well as breaking the neck loose, the scroll was broken. The neck appears to have been glued properly, but the scroll work is despicable (the broken area wasn't mated properly, and the box has a forward tilt). I want to remove the neck to rework the scroll and put it back together again properly.
Thanks in advance for your help from all of you with much more expertise in this area than I.

ctregan · #2 12-19-2008, 03:36 AM

If the neck is glued on properly, repair the scroll with the neck on the bass.

pianodan · #3 12-19-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctregan

If the neck is glued on properly, repair the scroll with the neck on the bass.

That's what I'm going to try first. I'm hoping they didn't use "gorilla glue" or some sort of polymer/epoxy mess to do it with. I'm planning on using a hot towel soak to permeate the existing glue joint, then work it loose. It was doweled to help hold it togeter, but when done, it left a good 1/8" gap in the broken area (filled with wood filler). That's one of my reasons for some worry over the neck joint as well. I'd like to do this just once and not twice on this one.

kurt ratering · #4 12-19-2008, 10:49 AM

is the piece broken completely off and pivoting on a dowel? or cracked and pinned "closed"? good luck

pianodan · #5 12-19-2008, 01:20 PM

It's got a real nice through and through crack running from below the E-string tuner hole through the box traveling upwards toward the D-string tuner. Whoever did the job glued it and pinned it, but didn't make sure they had a good glue joint. Naturally, it's flexed apart under string tension. On edit; it's also broken and poorly glued in the neck itself at the bottom of the scroll in the thumb crook.

kurt ratering · #6 12-20-2008, 11:07 AM

warm water and patience, lots and lots of patience

pianodan · #7 01-06-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurt ratering

warm water and patience, lots and lots of patience

Well, I did the the warm towel wrap for two days, it helped some.....I drilled out 9 soft wood dowels, and broke the mess loose. Now, I'd like some input on the next course of action; I've got ideas on how to do this that will most likely work, but then again, since it was damaged so badly, maybe not. I'm going to try and attach some pictures so you can see what I'm working with.......There will be 3 more pictures to come yet.

pianodan · #8 01-06-2009, 04:54 PM

More pictures....

pianodan · #9 01-06-2009, 04:57 PM

And, the last one. Oh, the fingerboard was poorly glued on (two splotches of Gorilla Glue...), the scroll was patched together with what looks like an aliphatic wood glue.

arnoldschnitzer · #10 01-06-2009, 06:47 PM

That thing is toast. Consider getting a replacement neck. Sorry...

pianodan · #11 01-06-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

That thing is toast. Consider getting a replacement neck. Sorry...

Thanks, Arnold, that was my feeling for it when I first took it in. The Orchestra that it belongs to is a Community style Symphony Orchestra (volunteer, so there is little money), I already warned the orchestra manager that I would most likely have to replace the neck, shot some figures past her, but I was hoping someone here knew something I didn't about putting a bad break like that back together.......
Next question : where is the best place to buy a complete neck with scroll other than International Violin? I'd like to see a range of prices and quality to choose from if that's possible. I know I'll have to fit it, but that's not a problem, fit and finish work I've done a lot of.

vejesse · #12 01-07-2009, 06:34 AM

Do you want to save the scroll? If you're NOT planning on grafting a new neck onto the scroll I'd say it worth a shot repairing that neck. If you were planning a scroll graft don't mess the scroll up any further with a repair but I bet you could come up with a repair using that neck that would hold for many years.

pianodan · #13 01-07-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vejesse

Do you want to save the scroll? If you're NOT planning on grafting a new neck onto the scroll I'd say it worth a shot repairing that neck. If you were planning a scroll graft don't mess the scroll up any further with a repair but I bet you could come up with a repair using that neck that would hold for many years.

Well, here's what my plan has been after thinking the whole mess over last night.......The broken part of the neck at the scroll I'll sand clean to a good 45 deg. angle, filling the dowel holes with hardwood dowel. The next step is to repair the scroll and thumb crook, I'll use some maple block that I've got from an old piano I've dismantled to do that, glue up and strengthen all the cracked areas. Then I can cut the same "V" in the new block for attachment, make a good solid glue joint and pin it with hardwood dowel. I know a tenon or mortise joint would be better and stronger, but I haven't figured out how I'll do that yet. Maybe with some input it'll drop into place in my figuring. Thanks!

salcott · #14 01-07-2009, 08:17 AM

Gollihur has necks and fingerboards.

pianodan · #15 01-07-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salcott

Gollihur has necks and fingerboards.

Help me out.....I don't know who Gollihur is.........I'm a newbie on this board, all the parts that I've had to get I've either fabricated or bought them from International Violin..........

Jake deVilliers · #16 01-07-2009, 09:37 AM

Bob Gollihur sells Engelhardt/Kay necks only but Metropolitan Music sells regular necks with standard mortises www.metmusic.com

Good luck!

pianodan · #17 01-07-2009, 12:15 PM

Thanks Jake!

pianodan · #18 01-08-2009, 08:38 AM

I just today noticed the Gollihur ad on the side bar.....I must be blind or something....DUH!!

pianodan · #19 01-28-2009, 08:28 AM

More pictures coming today, I removed the old neck last week (eveything moves slowly in this sub-zero weather, also doing many other jobs right now), new neck with scroll has been ordered. I haven't done much cleaning of the neck block yet, that work is in progress today.

pianodan · #20 01-31-2010, 05:38 PM

Well, after a very busy last year of working on actual paying jobs rebuilding antique pump organs (3 last year) and several partial piano rebuilds, now I can spend time on this bass again (in the too cold weather again, keeping the wood stove hot to keep my shop warm). The owner of this bass is the Heartland Symphony Orchestra (all volunteer, paid for by grants and donations) for whom I play bass. Most of the time I'm the only bassist, we borrow another bassist from Duluth (a "ringer") so I'm not all by my lonesome.
The orchestra board knows this is donated work, they're just paying for parts so when it takes a backseat to a paying job they are very understanding.
So far, since I've returned to working on this bass, I've been carving the neck, I'll show some pictures of the process later. I have been trying to keep a pictoral record for the HSO history books. When I'm done I'm going to have to figure up the cost of this job so I can submit the invoice to them and record it as a donation. Maybe some of the full time luthiers on here could give me some guidance here????