Need input from bent end pin users.

JtheJazzMan · #1 07-10-2009, 04:20 AM

Hi, Im just trying to gather measurements for a bent endpin project.

Im looking for different offsets compared to a standard reference point, to the end of the endpin where it touches the ground.

For example how far back from the bass does the point touch the ground? (That would be distance X)

Check out my crappy paint drawing to see what distances im referring to (distance X and Y).Attachment 132885

bassbuddie · #2 07-10-2009, 06:52 AM

It depends on the height of your bass. Mesure the length of your normal end pin, and use the same length for your bent endpin. It should be at a 44 degre angle.

Take a look a this pdf on George Vance website, it is the instructions to make a bent endpin.

http://www.slavapub.net/BentEndpin.pdf

François

JtheJazzMan · #3 07-10-2009, 07:18 AM

Thanks, yeah Ive already looked through that PDF.

My first little prototype was just a bent piece of steel, but there was a little springiness in it. Plus im a little worried about the potential to crack the endpin plug....

Ive got another design in my head that should solve both those and I just need to know how far back most people would have their contact point. Ive seen a few crazy angles and a some moderate ones, im wondering pros and cons

RobertUI · #4 07-10-2009, 07:38 AM

I'll take some measurements for you this evening as the Kay I just picked up has a bent endpin (I'm about to order a straight one, as I don't think I care for the bent one). Mine's just like this one http://www.fortune3.com/slavapub/End...nt_endpin.html although it might be of a different manufacturer.

Eric Hochberg · #5 07-10-2009, 08:49 AM

It's not a matter of "how far back", that's determined by the length and angle of the pin in order to accommodate the particular instrument and the player's height, and how the player wants the bass to stand and balance relative to his body. Rabbath uses a 44º angle, straight back, I think, mounted close to the back plate. Others use different angles and in varying degrees off to the side. This is a very individual thing. The Egg-pin is a device that allows for adjustment of many of these parameters.

basshog · #6 07-10-2009, 10:52 AM

+1 on the egg pin thing. Esp. if you're ultimately gonna drill "the hole." Also, your graph could use a "Z" dimension. Rabbath has his pin straight back, however, taller people or people with orchestra basses that have bigger shoulders tend to have the pin angled 4-7 degrees on the Z' towards your left foot. Good luck and keep us posted with your findings!

emilio g · #7 07-10-2009, 12:11 PM

At the ISB convention I got to see/try all different variations of height and angle. Most of the pins had around a 45 degree angle that either went straight back, or were pointing slightly toward the "G side" of the bass. I also noticed that the tip of the pin made contact with the ground just behind the back of the bass.

So, I eye-balled how far behind the bass the tip should be, then measured the length of the straight pin at my preferred height. Then squared both numbers and added them together, then took the square root of the sum which gave me two things:

1. The theoretical length of the bent pin.

2. My first practical application of high school trigonometry, ever.

In my case, the final number was about 7 inches. So I measured a little more than 7 inches and marked it. I had to go a little more because the part of the pin that goes into the socket must be perfectly straight or it will bind up.

As for actually bending the pin, I used the heavy steel endpin that was already on my bass. Tonally, steel endpins aren't great, but it could definitely take being bent, and would still be stable enough to play without any worries.

The penultimate step was going out to my Dad's garage and going for it. I put the section to remain straight in a heavy vice then put a torch on the point that I wanted to bend and used a long, closed end wrench to make the bend.

After it cooled off I put it in the bass to decide if I wanted it to point straight back or offset at an angle. I chose to offset it a little because it makes the bass "lean" into me. I can stand straight up and have access to most of the fingerboard this way. The final step was, after marking the pin, I used a metal file to grind a flat spot for the screw to grip so the pin doesn't spin around in the socket while I'm playing.

I'm very happy with the final result. The straight pin felt a little more stable to me but its a small sacrifice to make. Despite the slight springyness in the bent pin, it's MUCH more comfortable to play.

JtheJazzMan · #8 07-12-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertUI

I'll take some measurements for you this evening as the Kay I just picked up has a bent endpin (I'm about to order a straight one, as I don't think I care for the bent one). Mine's just like this one http://www.fortune3.com/slavapub/End...nt_endpin.html although it might be of a different manufacturer.

Just bumping this thread.

Any progress on those dimensions?

Some progress pics, from now on I can adjust the contact point with the ground based on different XYZ co-ordinates

Attachment 133038

JtheJazzMan · #9 07-12-2009, 06:28 AM

Progress Report: I think I have it set up roughly to where Rabbath has his set, going off footage on his DVD. Boy will this take some getting used to

The end pin has barely any springiness, and has no flimsiness. The extra brace should take the extremely undesirable force off the end pin. Looks like we have a winner!

RCWilliams · #10 07-12-2009, 08:22 AM

If you want to get into the bent end pin thing, you need to look into the axis of rotation as well. there are quite a few bent /tilted /weird end pins out there and there are a couple main approaches, some want the end pin under their bass, some want the end pin out to the side so it throws the bass into their body.

RobertUI · #11 07-14-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

Just bumping this thread.

Any progress on those dimensions?

Some progress pics, from now on I can adjust the contact point with the ground based on different XYZ co-ordinates

Attachment 133038

Wow, I totally flaked on that... I'll get some pics tonight (hopefully) and get back with you.

gack · #12 10-13-2009, 01:48 PM

Hey, guys.

Is there a way to measure the angle (and offset too) and length of Laborie endpin theoretically (without using an eggpin)?

Thanks

robobass · #13 10-13-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbuddie

It depends on the height of your bass. Mesure the length of your normal end pin, and use the same length for your bent endpin. It should be at a 44 degre angle....
http://www.slavapub.net/BentEndpin.pdf

François

Yes, it must be exactly 44°. Any more or less and you will kill the sound, and probably damage the bass as well. Also, it should tilt a little to the left.
You guys!

PB+J · #14 10-13-2009, 07:43 PM

I started with a bent endpin, then went to an eggpin. I got tired of fiddling with hex wrenches and after I realized that I always ended up with the eggpin straight back and extended to full length, went to the KC Strings angled end pin and ordered a pin slightly longer than the eggpin--maybe an inch. I've been very happy with it ever since

bassbuddie · #15 10-13-2009, 07:45 PM

I used the bent end pin to see if it would help, and it did so I have the Laborie end pin now.

JtheJazzMan · #16 10-13-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gack

Hey, guys.

Is there a way to measure the angle (and offset too) and length of Laborie endpin theoretically (without using an eggpin)?

Thanks

Try 25 cm behind the endpin point.

Then the height should be set near your normal endpin height.

You really need an adjustable rig to get it right.

I recently made a lighter one out of fibreglass. Much lighter than my beefy steel rig.

Attachment 143162

LouisF · #17 10-14-2009, 03:14 AM

Has anyone tried the Stahlhammer endpin. They have a socket that can be used straight or at a 25 degree angle. They seem to be popular with cellists - and with some bassists in Europe, but I haven't seen any over here.

Louis

gack · #18 10-14-2009, 03:33 AM

Thanks for the input. So I think I`m gonna drill a 44 degree angled hole and experiment with length on a wooden stick.

JtheJazzMan · #19 10-14-2009, 04:50 AM

Woah hold up there son.

Making a removeable non permanent rig is a much better idea first up.

You may need to offset the pin towards the treble side, but you wont know how much without experimenting with an adjustable rig first.

Once you drill a big hole in the bass, its permanent.

RCWilliams · #20 10-14-2009, 10:21 AM

+1 with the don't experiment with a drill