New Bass Build Advice

powerbass · #1 05-29-2009, 07:53 PM

I've checked out some of the new bass build threads and I am very impressed and inspired by all the beautiful basses. I am contemplating building my own (and learning how to play it as well) and I have a few questions that I was hoping you guys could answer and also provide feedback - basically I want to gather as much initial info before I embark on this. I was going to PM specific builders but I thought putting it out there in one shot would get the most info. If there is a post about all this that I missed feel free to set me straight. I was a professional, custom furniture maker for over 15 yrs so I have all the tools and know how to use them very well. I have made several electric basses and an EUB. My big questions are where do you get plans, materials and building advice.
Books: I have seen 2 books for sale "Traeger SETUP & REPAIR OF THE DB FOR OPTIMUM SOUND" and "So ... you want to make a Double Bass". Are these a good resource and do you recommend any other building references, websites etc?
Materials: I have a nice piece of 16/4 cherry that I have been sitting on for years that would make a nice neck, I also have a wide plank of beautiful 6/4 cherry, figured maple is also available. I have done some online research for spruce top wood and it seems to be pretty expensive. I live in New England and I could probably find white pine boards that I could use for a top. I would like to keep this first bass simple, cheap and use locally available materials. What do you guys think of pine as a material for the top? I understand the need for dry, seasoned and stable wood.
Design, plans etc: I am a beginning jazz player so I want a design that would best complement that style - I know this is a vague statement but I am not an orchestra musician. I am 5'9" tall, I want a 3/4 size bass, I like the sloping shoulder designs they seem to offer good ergonomic access to the upper notes. Where do you get plans? Any wise advice/info about bass design?
Construction details: I have extensive experience w/bent laminating w/both mechanical veneer presses and vacuum bag laminating. I was thinking about vacuum bag laminations for the curved parts (pardon my bass terminology ignorance). This would require 3 jigs since there is right/left identical parts and in an ideal situation I could have all the laminations done in 3 days or less. Any thoughts about this? Is it recommended to reinforce the neck w/carbon fiber such as used for electric bass necks? I also like the modified neck scroll designs. I could do the carving but I like the simplicity of less ornamentation. Does the carved neck scroll facilitate better sound or neck strength or is it primarily an ornament? Well I think this covers most of my big questions, I'm sure there will be more. So any advice you share is greatly appreciated!

**Matthew Tucker** · #2 05-30-2009, 05:32 AM

Buy the books and read them through a few times. Both are worth the cost. A drop in the ocean compared to the cost of tools and wood and your time.

You need to be the sort of person who can stick with a looooong project and not get sick of it. And you need to be able to sink a lot of money and time into it.

Making a bass from existing plans will be easier if for your first bass. Then you can adapt what you have learnt. The chandler plans are fine.

Lamination? If you're an expert, go for it. If you want to learn about bending wood with heat, do that.

If you don't play a double bass, well that won't stop you; but playing one sure helps understand how they work. Time to start a few lessons?

Go and look at as many basses as you can. Look closely at the arching. Look really closely at the curves from all angles. Ask yourself what a particular shape might do, how it might work.

ctregan · #3 05-30-2009, 05:34 AM

The biggest asset you need is, lots of time.

You also will need "bass specialized" hand tools; planes, clamps, bits, knives, scrapers, files, etc. Be prepared to spend some money here.

Find a bass you can look at for a reference.

Take each part or section, as a project within a project. Go slow.

There are a lot of emotional ups and downs. Exciting when you cut your first parts! Gloom and doom if something goes wrong.

james condino · #4 05-31-2009, 09:32 AM

It sounds like you've got a background and the technology that will put you in a great starting position to build a bass. The two books you mentioned will be a good starting point. The large shop is helpful, but not necessary; I built mine using 99% hand tools. For the few times I needed the larger machines, such as when I resawed the rib stock from 11" wide maple boards, I went to someone else's shop and paid them $25 for the task (1/2 hour of work at their shop rate of $50/ hr.) to use a $25,000 Stenner resaw machine.

I'd compare the amount of time to build one similar to doing a nice vintage car restoration- you'll be looking at a couple of years worth of your spare time and a lot of focus. The real question is why do you want to build one? If you think it will be saving money, you might as well get a job at a drive through fast food place and just work off the total price on your dream bass- it will likely take you far less time and effort.

If, on the other hand, you really enjoy using your hands to produce a piece of work that you can claim as distinctly yours, and you couldn't think of a better, more enjoyable way to pass the limited time that we all have here on Earth by slowly carving an ancient piece of spruce by hand from a rough looking door sized piece of firewood down to a beautifully shaped bass top that reponds in way you never imagined to the most delicate touch and the proces itself is more peaceful and rewarding than you could ever imagine, then it might be the perfect fit for you. To paraphrase a good friend and mentor of mine,classical guitar builder Eugene Clark:

"Why would I ever need to take up fly fishing or yoga when I can get to the same place all day long carving spruce and french polishing???"

I've also seen beginning students with the wrong temperment try to build instruments and get so frustrated the first week that they had a manic temper tantrum, smashed their work into a thousand pieces, and stormed away swearing that they hate everything about this and me for ever suggesting the idea to them.....

j.
www.condino.com

1st Bass · #5 05-31-2009, 10:30 AM

For what it is worth, I used those two books to build my first bass, and it turned out surprisingly well, in spite of some failings in craftsmanship.

I built two violas and three violins before completing the bass, so I had a pretty good idea of how an instrument went together, as a general concept. But there was still quite a learning curve, and it was sometimes quite overwhelming...so much so that I would walk out to the shop, stand there for a minute, looking at the bass, turn out the lights, and go back to the house.

But it did get done, and it played very well. It lives in Illinois now, as the owner moved there before I was even done making the bass, so I never saw it again. :-(

powerbass · #6 06-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Thanks for all your insights and opinions. I know it is big undertaking. I need some sobering advice before I sink time and money into such an endeavor. As with many things now, even making electric basses the materials and hardware cost more that a good introductory instrument so it has to be a DIY satisfaction thing.

zeytoun · #7 06-01-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerbass

As with many things now, even making electric basses the materials and hardware cost more that a good introductory instrument so it has to be a DIY satisfaction thing.

+1,000
I am reaching the end of a build, and have a newfound appreciation for the work that goes into a luthier made double bass. $1,500 for an entry-level instrument seems too low to me now.

On the other hand, I'm feeling deep accomplishment and satisfaction.

*(and my build is nowhere close to the level of effort required for a real double bass)

uprightben · #8 06-03-2009, 07:26 AM

powerbass- it sounds like you are in a good position to build a bass. cherry for the back, sides and neck is a good choice, be very picky about quality and grain orientation. white pine for the top is risky, a very experienced builder might be able to make it sound great, or he might not. You will be risking wasting your time, effort and money if you get finished and the bass looks great but doesn't sound very good. I hear you about the cost of spruce for a bass, maybe a vacation to the pacific northwest with some sawmill visits could yeild a top? Either way you go, please keep us posted and good luck!

forester · #9 06-03-2009, 09:09 PM

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i always liked this shot circa 1975 Washington state, engleman spruce...gotta be a top in there somewhere

Jake deVilliers · #10 06-03-2009, 09:46 PM

Really!? I can't find a citation for one bigger than 1.5 meters.

That's got to be 15 feet! Red cedar or Sitka sure, but not Engelmann...

forester · #11 06-03-2009, 11:05 PM

good eye jake..i'm blowing smoke

(look at the outerbark) ..OG near Seattle.... i thought it would raise a hard on or two..keep looking for that big tree.

Jake deVilliers · #12 06-03-2009, 11:19 PM

I've spent a fair amount of time in those coastal forests falling, fighting fires, planting trees, hiking and never seen one that big - not even a stump.

My neighbours across the street and down three houses have two pretty nice Sitka out front though...

I have some great curly maple from a tree a block away. It was standing dead for 10 years when the phone company dropped it. I came by and saw firewood, so I filled the van - I was amazed when I saw it was bone dry and curly, pissed off to find it was all ~12" long - too short for anything but tailpieces...

Jake deVilliers · #13 06-03-2009, 11:44 PM

Here's a cool site I just found. http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hre/bigtrees/

Its the BC Big Tree Registry; the photos aren't big enough but it makes for interesting reading. There are also Links to the US and UK Big Tree Registries.

powerbass · #14 06-04-2009, 06:59 AM

I have worked w/red cedar for a couple of instruments and I really liked how they turned out. I try to source local materials and the cedar was from my local lumber yard. I hear the comment about pine being a gamble so maybe red cedar would be a better choice? Does anyone have experience making a top out of red cedar and 2. where can I find boards big enough? My local lumbar yard is not going to have this wood in the desired dimensions. Also what about making a top out of wood native to New England? Last year a very large willow tree was cut down in my neighborhood - had to be over 36" in diameter. What about walnut?

**Matthew Tucker** · #15 06-04-2009, 07:49 AM

Western Red Cedar works really well. If you can get planks thick enough (40mm) and can find some that are cut close to the quarter you can glue 3-4 planks together for a multipiece top. Sure, you might see the seams. But ... it works very well.

arnoldschnitzer · #16 06-04-2009, 07:55 AM

Berkshire Products in Sheffield, MA has a lot of wide stock. http://www.berkshireproducts.com

james condino · #17 06-04-2009, 12:51 PM

Bruce Harvey at Orcas Island Tonewoods is a fantastic source for anything from the northwest. Good stuff, good guy, and he is a great musician.

j.

james condino · #18 06-04-2009, 01:07 PM

I used to cut giant trees almost as large as the one forrester posted with a huge two person cross cut saw when I worked for the forest service as a back country ranger in one of the wilderness areas- no chainsaws allowed in there. Some trees would take most of a day for two of us pulling until my heartbeat felt like Lance Armstrong going for a 9th tour win for hours before we could get a single side cut...

Even today, I still use one whenever I buck up logs.

I think you could have very good results using Douglas Fir as top wood. It needs to be seasoned well- there are a few pitch pocket issues that can present themselves later if it isn't. It can also be a bit prone to splintering- I think it is mainly due to the immense size of th trees and the fracturing that comes when it falls. I've made several flat top steel string guitars with it and some incredible mandolins using it- tonally It can pass for red spruce. I tend to go about 10-15% thinner. Some of the nice old growth stuff is about 30% more dense than western maple- I've always wanted to try it for a back. It would be fragile, but the double back might have some huge resonances....or too much of a good thing....

j.

arnoldschnitzer · #19 06-04-2009, 05:32 PM

James, I've seen two basses with Doug Fir tops, and both were plagued with splits. It's a beautiful wood, but for this reason I've never tried it.

forester · #20 06-04-2009, 11:23 PM

i once cruised an 11 acre stand of western red cedar that cut over 1mm bdft... trees averaged 14ft diam. /170+ft tall. they tend to be hollow for the first 40' or so due to age/decay.if the rind is 3' thick holding up the tree it will yield products such as bolts,rails,post etc. the only way to detirmine the defect/usability and average it over the stand is to drop one.
saw+converse all stars+23 yr old fearless know-it-all..you get the picture..it was a long morning. oh yea.. hollow trees just don't fall, they sometimes collapse straight down under the weight perched above..this thought never crossed my mind untill i gave an oldtimer a good listening to!
think i'll be sticking close to the stringshop for awhile