new bass, what to expect

vt picker · #1 08-15-2009, 10:00 AM

i'm new to this forum, but perused it some.

i have been playing 3 1/2 years, bluegrass (nothing fancy) pizz (obviously).

have a hybrid bass, 3 years old, i've fussed with myself and it's nice and loud, fairly clear tone (a bit uneven though, and not so loud up high). trying out a brand fully carved fancy bass. same maker in romania, same size. tone is much better, really even, and nice up the neck (as far as i go anyway around the harmonic occasionally). both are the same size bouts etc. carved is 21 pounds heavy, plywood is 18.5 (end pin on new is metal and contributes maybe pound of that)

it's not as loud as the hybrid. here are the differences:
hybrid
3 years
1/4 inch fingerboard and top at the holes (yes thin fingerboard)
nylon tailpiece hanger
carbon fiber end pin
new thicker sound post (my doing)
new high quality bridge (my doing, not best fit but damn good)
low low action (a girl could play it, wait i am a girl)

carved
still has the new bass smell
3/8 inch fingerboard and top
smaller f holes
wire hanger (braided 5/32)
original sound post don't know tightness
bridge fits well
just low action
fancy ebony tuners
flame maple sides beautiful top

both have thomastik light strings. will the new bass open up and get louder? is there anyway to tell? is 3/8 a thick top? i can feel the body vibrate, it's just not shooting outward. it's really pretty, but around 6k which is a chunk of change. i don't really need another bass, but i would like a carved to see the differences between the two.

any suggestions would be appreciated. i have it for a few weeks to play it a lot. it needs to be able to compete with a banjo

kelly stockwell

reedo35 · #2 08-15-2009, 10:15 AM

Are you doing any Arco work on it? IME, playing long tones with a bow was always a good way to get a newer bass to open up. If you are just doing Pizz, raise the string height and pluck away..

Eric Hochberg · #3 08-15-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vt picker

both have thomastik light strings. will the new bass open up and get louder? is there anyway to tell? is 3/8 a thick top? i can feel the body vibrate, it's just not shooting outward. it's really pretty, but around 6k which is a chunk of change. i don't really need another bass, but i would like a carved to see the differences between the two.

kelly stockwell

The bass will change as it's played, but no way to tell if "it" (various frequencies) will get louder. Bass tops have graduations of different thicknesses throughout the plate. How do you know the carved bass isn't as loud as the hybrid? You need to have someone else play it while you listen from various distances. It may sound quiet from the playing position but may project well into a room.

You should have a good bass luthier check it out and see if they have any ideas to improve it. If this bass doesn't work for you and your needs, take a pass and find one that does.

Square Bear · #4 08-15-2009, 12:46 PM

actually i think playing pizz flexes the top more than arco and really does a lot to break in a new instrument. my new bass has opened up a ton, but when i really notice the difference is when i've been thumping away on it for an hour.

also the above post is right, you need to hear someone else play on them to determine which has more sound. when i brought my new bass home i was looking at two and thought the other was louder. when i heard another player compare them i found that to not be the case at all, and it definitely influenced which instrument i ended up buying.

with a new bass, you need to expect to buy it for what it is, not what it may or may not become. it may get louder, it may develop a nasty wolf, it may darken or get more bright, who knows. in the end, it will probably sound more similar than different to what it is now, but it will change.

vt picker · #5 08-15-2009, 03:52 PM

Thanks folks, I did have someone else play it for me, as well as switch back and forth between the two (standing in the same place).

Carved bass seems to have a deeper tone to it, like the note comes from inside, hybrid is more from the surface in your face. It's like the note in the carved develops as it comes out, and with the hybrid it's on the front edge. The hybrid now has new thomastiks, and the old ones are on the trial bass (instantly the hybrid bass was brighter/louder)

Lots of my other "if" issues is that i would make some changes if i owned it, different bridge, sanding the nut some, closer spacing on the strings, thicker sound post (current one seems quite loose, I went to move it a bit and it easily fell over, not so with hybrid bass, it's also thin 5/8). For example, small buzz on the D string, and the A isn't so loud.

I will try to bring it to someone to check out, and play some other carved basses, though i think 6k is the bottom end of the scale.

Square Bear · #6 08-15-2009, 04:06 PM

you should see if you can get whoever is selling that bass to have a luthier properly set that sound post before you buy it.

vt picker · #7 08-15-2009, 04:12 PM

how tight should the sound post be? strings practically off, i bumped it and it fell over.

but will do, thanks again

Square Bear · #8 08-15-2009, 04:13 PM

also, don't buy a bass for 6k until you've looked at the wan bernadels from string emporium. i just bought one, they go for 5k and have a great set up. i played on many many basses and this one was the best i could find even compared to much more expensive basses. i got the bass because it was the one i liked the best, not because it was the best i could afford. steve is a great guy too, he even paid for the finger board to be dressed because it had a slight buzz on the g string in half position when i really laid into it.

i know i sound like a salesman, but i've known many people who bought these basses and every one of them is happy with it. they're all great instruments.

Square Bear · #9 08-15-2009, 04:27 PM

if the strings were all off the bass or tuned down that may be why the post fell. you should change the strings one at a time.

longfinger · #10 08-15-2009, 04:42 PM

If you don't really need a new bass, I suggest not spending $6000 on a new bass unless it makes you go "WOW!!! I NEED this bass!" For that price, should not the bass already be setup to impress and sell. Are you impressed?

Anyways, you have a few weeks to play with it. Record yourself with each bass and then compare the recordings.

I'm curious about this though..about your hybrid..
>1/4 inch fingerboard and top at the holes (yes thin fingerboard)

Are you writing that the top is 1/4" thick at the ff holes? Are you sure that's a hybrid? A 1/4" thick top is more like a plywood top. A carved top has to be thicker to avoid splitting. Some ply tops have very beautiful top layers that look like carved tops, but of course they don't get thicker at the end rim, as you can't easily bend that rim into a ply.

>Carved bass seems to have a deeper tone to it, like the note comes from inside, hybrid is more from the surface in your face. It's like the note in the carved develops as it comes out, and with the hybrid it's on the front edge.

I know what you mean. I have a Strunal ply and his has a big fat front end. It's why I bought it. I really liked the pizz sound. Some entry level carved basses when plucked sounded very weak to me by comparison. But now after a few months, I notice that my bass lacks some bottom and the better carved basses I've played since have more deep bottom coming from deep within. They are priced accordingly though...

I thought hybrids were supposed to get that deepness too...since more sound comes from the top, than from the back and sides. Maybe you have a ply bass?

vt picker · #11 08-15-2009, 06:15 PM

the fingerboard and the carved top (at the f holes where i can measure) are both 1/4 inch, seems thin to me. it is definitely carved, i see the wood grain along the edge, and can see the ply difference in the back. the neck is pretty small too for it (it is also a 5/8 size, string length 40").

i've had no problems with splitting and i've dragged it to festivals, played in a misty rain, wiped the dew off and kept going. it's got some special mojo to it, so it's hard to find something better. it has a loud present sound, which really is fine, just want to know what else i can get from a bass.

i've pretty much decided to wait until wow. may call string emporium again, this trial bass that showed up and it sure is pretty... same maker as mine so i had hopes.

for the strings, i did change them one at a time when i changed them.
i was trying to move bridge around (the feet were crooked) and the soundpost dropped. strings were still on. tight sound post makes the bass stiffer, so its good to know that's not the problem.

Eric Hochberg · #12 08-16-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vt picker

the fingerboard and the carved top (at the f holes where i can measure) are both 1/4 inch, seems thin to me.

My 100 year old German bass is < 1/4" at the f holes. The top is in good shape. If your top was too thin along the bass bar or sound post area, then you might have a problem. A thin 1/4" fingerboard might improve the volume, a thicker, heavier board might dampen or darken it some.

Tim Skaggs · #13 08-21-2009, 09:25 PM

I went down the exact same road; bought a laminated, played a few years, thought I had to have a carved bass, traded my laminated for a Romanian carved flat back, gorgeous bass, played great, but wasn't the big bloom boom needed for bluegrass, outdoor, unamplified. I played the carved for a few years until I was near ready to kill all banjo players. I bought a 1952 laminated, put on Innovation Super Silvers, and I'm right where I wanted to be when I bought the carved top. When I got ready to sell the carved bass, I took it out of the case the first time in about a week & had a nice crack in the top coming off one F-Hole. The luthier I took it to sold it for me minus his repair fee.

vt picker · #14 08-22-2009, 09:08 AM

Tim, thanks for your input. that story is scary!!! I'm married to a banjo player, so we've been A:B the bass w/ banjo all along. i suppose from your statement your carved never opened up?

I did vow not to sell my hybrid bass regardless if a new one ever shows up. I need a festival bass after all

Tim Skaggs · #15 08-23-2009, 07:37 PM

No, the carved top bass (it was a Knilling Bucharest model) never really opened up to my liking. I put some low tension perlon core strings on it (Piastro Obligato) that improved its sound for bluegrass, but it still wasn't anywhere near as full & loud as my laminated. I've heard some solid basses that sounded great, but mine wasn't one of them. I think to get the tone that you expect out of a solid wood bass, you have to get a "good" carved top bass & not just "a" carved top bass.