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Setup & Repair [DB] Exploring the issues involved in setting up and repairing basses, along with luthier recommendations.


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  #1  
Old 02-15-2009, 08:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: B.C. Canada
new here & seeking advice

I posted this on another site and I'd also like to see what you guys think.
I have a 1951 S8 Kay,
I'm beginner/ intermediate level player.
It's hard to decifer things sometimes, I read things like:
CF rods on a laminate bass is a waste of money.
Velvet strings on a laminate bass are a waste.
get rid of the coathanger wire that holds the tailpiece on.
get a new nut/reduce string spacing.
I'm confused

What are the best things do to improve the playability and sound of an old Kay bass.

I have built a few guitars so I can do some things myself.
Thank you in advance for your time.
Peter
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2009, 08:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern California
Welcome on board Peter.

What would you like to do with the bass? What type of music do you you play or want to?
  #3  
Old 02-15-2009, 09:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: B.C. Canada
I play with bluegrass and Fiddle tune players.
My bass is all stock aside from an adj. bridge.
I'm not saying it sounds or plays bad, I'm just wondering if it can be optimized. I have read that cabon fiber endpins increase volume.
Strings with less tension increase playability as does changing the tailgut wire.
I also heard a new nut with smaller string spacing could be in order.
So if you were an intermediate level player and had my bass and wanted to play bluegrass would you change it somehow?
  #4  
Old 02-15-2009, 09:20 PM
jallenbass's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Bend, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piiman View Post
Velvet strings on a laminate bass are a waste.
That's incorrect. Animas on any bass will be a big difference from standard steel strings. Whether you like them or not is the issue. Only one way to find out. I personally think they would work great for the types of music you play.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2009, 09:39 PM
proprietor, Condino's String Shop
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asheville, nc
Peter:

If you've built a couple of guitars, then you've got a great start in owning an old Kay, because a lot of them are like old volkswagons; if you don't start out a good mechanic, you'll need to become one in order to stick with it. I've owned a lot of old Kays and a lot of old volkswagons...and still love them both.

Get a copy of Chuck Traeger's book "The Setup and Repair of the Double Bass for Optimum Sound". It will likely be the best money you'll ever spend as a bass player.

j.
  #6  
Old 02-16-2009, 10:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: B.C. Canada
Back in 1970 I went to Avco Finance and borrowed $700.00 and bought a a'59 VW bug, and insurance, the car was $300.00. Ive had bugs,mico buses and fastbacks, loved them all. Now I'm more of a truck guy.
I ordered Chucks Book.
Thank you.
Peter
  #7  
Old 02-16-2009, 11:41 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Marysville, WA
Thumbs up Optimizing Plywood...

Quote:
Originally Posted by piiman View Post
I play with bluegrass and Fiddle tune players.
My bass is all stock aside from an adj. bridge.
I'm not saying it sounds or plays bad, I'm just wondering if it can be optimized. I have read that cabon fiber endpins increase volume.
Strings with less tension increase playability as does changing the tailgut wire.
I also heard a new nut with smaller string spacing could be in order.
So if you were an intermediate level player and had my bass and wanted to play bluegrass would you change it somehow?


First off .... Welcome to TalkBass, Peter piiman !

I also play mainly bluegrass and fiddler groups along with celtic and a bit of folk and whatever comes along, but almost always large groups, unamplified, often outdoors and keeping it pretty simple and low on the neck. So yeah, I can totally understand why a person would want to put money into a plywood bass and get the most they can from it. Not all on TB will get while you're coming from, but there are also many that will. You just need to consider the perspective of the person giving the advice when deciding if the advice works for you.

Heck, If I wanted a solid top bass I would have one... I like my german plywood... it's loud, durable, and I especially like it when the sun goes down and the temperature drops 20 degrees in half an hour

I bought a bass with minimal setup about a year ago and while learning to play have been asking myself many of the same questions you're asking...

What strings do you have now? What sound and feel are you going for? I play with the bow a bit, so Velvet Anima, for example, probably isn't the best for me but could be for you.

Carbon fibre endpin? absolutely...that's my next upgrade. The first was getting rid of the solid tailpiece hanger and putting on amsteel (kevlar) due to the solid wire cracking. EZ installation, but next time I'd go steel cable for the adjustability and although the amsteel isn't supposed to stretch it seems to take awhile for the knot and weave of the cord to get to maximum tightness and stabilize.

Even with your guitar building experience, some things such as planing the fingerboard are best left to a luthier experienced with basses and I'd also put fitting a soundpost into the more hassle than it's worth category unless you are prepared to spend more time working on your bass than playing it

I've seen a lot of discussion about thickness of Kay necks, but don't recall anything about nut or neck width. Why do you think the nut's too wide? For nut height, I've found the usual advice of a business card under the strings at the nut is about right.

BC's a big place, so don't know if you're in driving distance of greater Vancouver, but I think you'd benefit from a chat with Jake at Crescent Beach Guitar. I don't know him personally, but he's a bluegrasser, here on TB, and I've heard nothing but good things from people he's done work for.
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chicago
I've got one of the early S-8s, made in 1939. I've learned that only 400 or so of this model were made between 1938 and 1954. Mine is strung with Spiros and sounds great. I'd echo the advice to have it looked at by Jake or another good luthier and see what they think.

I've played many Kays in my life. Most of them sound like crap, mainly because they've been beat to hell and left to rot and partly because they were, after all, designed as basses for high school kids. I can't put my finger on the cause, but I feel a real difference between the average Kay and these older "S" series models. I do know that Kay changed wood suppliers a few times, originally using a south side Chicago-based company. Roger Stowers' web-site references this somewhere (www.kaybass.com). I don't know if it was the thickness of veneer, the glue used, or other factors, but the sound quality of these older basses, including mine, really differentiates them. You'll have to pry mine out of my cold dead hands.

Enjoy.
  #9  
Old 02-16-2009, 01:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Changing the tailwire for more modern materials is a good thing, opens the instrument out quite a bit. The very best is airplane control cable, the next is fine stainless yacht rigging cable.

As for the string spacing at the nut... the fingerboard was made with a certain spacing in mind, and the nut has to match that. If yours doesn't, that needs fixed, but if it does, you will only make things worse by changing it.

As for strings for bluegrass... no idea, that's not what I do... although Spirocore Weichs work OK for just about anything, they're the only totally general-purpose strings.
  #10  
Old 02-16-2009, 01:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: B.C. Canada
My memory is not good, but if it would serve me well this time I think I have D'adario hybrids on my bass now. they seem quite stiff and would like to change them out to something with less tension.
I also play outdoors often so the ply. bass works well for that.

I don't see myself getting to Jake Devilliers place any time soon.He's about 10 hours driving from me but I'll see him at the first opportunity.
Thank you all for posting, Much apreciated!!

Peter
  #11  
Old 02-16-2009, 01:55 PM
Jake deVilliers's Avatar
'Woodworker - Witch Doctor - Luthier'

Owner/The Bass Spa, String Repairman/L & M Vancouver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Crescent Beach, BC
Supporting Member
Hey Peter, feel free to email me at jake@thebassspa.com if you want to discuss your bass and its setup.

Where do you live?
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