New tuning machines for Shen Willow 7/8

[Adrian Cho]

I'd like to replace the tuners on my Shen Willow 7/8. The stock ones really aren't all that great and have a tendency to get stuck here and there.

I've read that the tuning machines on the Shens are copies of the KC Strings tuners. However I notice that the Shens use two different types of tuners on the better instruments. You can see this on the cscproducts.com site under Basses->Bass Machines. It seems like the ones that are the KC Strings copies are the "Euro" ones used on the Rogeri and Panormo models. The "Shenzou" ones appear to be different - certainly the screw locations are different.

I'm trying to figure out what would be an ideal replacement for the "Shenzou" tuners on my Willow 7/8. The KC Strings ones seem to be the way to go (Sloanes are just way too expensive for me) but it looks some work (at a minimum new holes drilled and other holes filled) for them to be fitted. Any comments?

[arnoldschnitzer]

If you get a set of Sloanes from Gage then all you have to do to mount them is open up the shaft holes a bit. They cost more than the KC's but the installation is easier (cheaper). Some people love the fine tuning, others don't. I've grown to like them, especially with the available aluminum shafts (they are anodized gold to match the brass).

[nottalkative]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Lately I've been using the Sloans. I spoke to David Gage about the weight of those and he told me they can now be ordered with aluminum shafts. It makes a big difference. The shafts are gold anodized so they blend in well.

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I've grown to like them, especially with the available aluminum shafts (they are anodized gold to match the brass).

I’ve been thinking of getting a set of sloanes. According to Gage’s web site, they are now available with two differnt core materials -Brass or Aluminum. I somehow understand that heavier bass machines damp vibration. So the lighter, the better for bass. Am I right? But, will anodized aluminum get aged look? I like those aged looking bass machines like Gary Peacock’s Sloanes. hmm... Which way should I go? Any suggestions?

[Adrian Cho]

There have been lots of argument on the weight issue with respect to extensions, A0-B0 matching, etc. All I know is that I personally don't wish to carry more weight when lugging the instrument itself, and when I lay it down on its side, I don't expect the scroll end to swing down and smash into the floor.

I would love to get a set of the Sloanes with the aluminum shafts but it sure is a chunk of money.

[Jake deVilliers]

You could always drill out the centres of the KCs and replace with hardwood dowel.
It takes a lot of weight out of the solid metal tuner shafts, usually around 100 grams/4.

Of course you'd be spending more on the installation that way....

[1st Bass]

If "aging" and the natural patina of old brass matters to you, then the aluminum will be a dissapointment-- it may look like brass, but it is an artificial (and very hard...this is what carborundum is made of) thickening of the natural oxide film that coats ALL aluminum, and which has been dyed, subsequent to the actual anodization process.

The gold-colored aluminum-oxide film contains no copper/brass/bronze, and will not age green or black, as those metals will (oxides/sulfides, etc.), as it is itself an oxide. Any wear will show up as a silvery color, though they may take a while to show up.

Old brass looks like old brass because...it's old brass. :-)

[nottalkative]

First of all, a late apology for derailing the original thread. I didn't mean that though.

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

I personally don't wish to carry more weight when lugging the instrument itself.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

when I lay it down on its side, I don't expect the scroll end to swing down and smash into the floor.

Oh, c'mon Adrian, that's an exaggeration... isn't it?

Originally Posted by 1st Bass

If "aging" and the natural patina of old brass matters to you, then the aluminum will be a dissapointment-- it may look like brass, but it is an artificial (and very hard...this is what carborundum is made of) thickening of the natural oxide film that coats ALL aluminum, and which has been dyed, subsequent to the actual anodization process.

The gold-colored aluminum-oxide film contains no copper/brass/bronze, and will not age green or black, as those metals will (oxides/sulfides, etc.), as it is itself an oxide. Any wear will show up as a silvery color, though they may take a while to show up.

Thanks for sharing the information.

So yesterday I sent an inquiry email to the Gage about the weight difference between a set of 4 Aluminum core and Brass. And I've already got the reply! That says "The Sloane Tuners with aluminum core are approximately half pound lighter than the tuners with brass core."
That's a huge difference,isn't it?

[toman]

I liked the ugly individual brass machines that came on the early Shen's. They weren't super accurate, they were kinda creaky, but they never failed or wore in any way. I wonder if those are still around, because I certainly don't like the Shen machines on their new lower-end basses. Haven't spent much time yet with the better ones.

[Adrian Cho]

Originally Posted by nottalkative

Oh, c'mon Adrian, that's an exaggeration... isn't it?

Actually I don't think it is. I believe that this does or almost does happen in some cases with those heavy KC Strings extensions.

[boylebass]

The KCS extension is very heavy. IIRC, it's solid brass. One of my buddies had one installed and when the bass is on the floor it now rests on the upper bout and the scroll, as opposed to the way most of us expect our basses to rest, on both bouts.

(another hijack, sorry)

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by nottalkative

"The Sloane Tuners with aluminum core are approximately half pound lighter than the tuners with brass core."
That's a huge difference,isn't it?

Yes it is. For me it's a big reason why I now use the Sloane tuners.