Old Bass Restoration- Parts Problem

nthoman · #1 09-21-2006, 08:58 PM

I am restoring a late 1940's copy of a Karl Knilling Bass made in Mittenwald Germany (Marked Made in Germany -U.S. Zone). This instrument was spared from a dumpster, headed there probably due to it's tramatic history including a broken neck with fingerboard split, forunately not invloving the playing surface, and a broken headstock as well. It had been striped of it's salvagable parts: endpin, saddle, bridge, nut and two piece machines.
Although not a luthier, I have more than basic woodworking skills, my father having been a formally trained cabinetmaker, and I have been able to repair most of the problems with the help of a number of proper reference sources. I expect this to be a functioning, if not classic, instrument that at least will enjoy the distinction of being roughly 55 years old give or take.
My one problem is the machines. I want to use two piece machines: first, because the instrument originally had them, and secondly, because the large plate will reinforce the repaired headstock by bridging the repaired crack. Herein lies the problem, not being knowledgeable in this field, it appears that modern two piece machines have a distance of 96mm, on center, between tuner posts; however this old bass' machines were 90mm on center on each side. Are such machines still available or will I have to resort to four piece machines or plug, redrill and ream the head (which doesn't seem to be a wise path to me) to accept the 96mm machines which will otherwise fit nicely. Any suggestions are welcome and appreaciated as well as any info re:this instrument in that I am unsure about it's lineage.

JimmyM · #2 09-21-2006, 09:22 PM

I'm lost here. You were able to salvage the two piece machines off that bass, but they don't fit in the same bass? What am I missing here? Not that I could help you with your problem, just trying to understand.

Jeff Bollbach · #3 09-21-2006, 10:51 PM

Plug the holes, drill new ones. It's done all the time. You'll go nuts trying to find plate tuners that'll match the original holes.

JimmyM · #4 09-22-2006, 02:58 AM

I see now. He had to replace the headstock with a new one that doesn't match up. Sorry...never mind me...you experts continue, please.

Paul Warburton · #5 09-22-2006, 04:09 AM

Basses don't have headstocks...they have scrolls..and a tuning box!..that drives me nuts!
(if you haven't noticed)

uptonbass · #6 09-22-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Bollbach

Plug the holes, drill new ones. It's done all the time. You'll go nuts trying to find plate tuners that'll match the original holes.

Agreed with Jeff

Is it this bad?

uptonbass · #7 09-22-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

The Scroll is something I felt I had to do myself just to get some personal touch with the restoration.

There you go ken!

Did you see the nails in this one:

uptonbass · #8 09-22-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Neither the Bass nor the Scroll is a Prescott so I think that Bass got way more work than it deserved pedigree wise.

Let's not get into our opinions about that Ken, please leave it at that! We will stick to the subject......for the record he purchased it as that from a very prominent NYC bass shop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

The day I brought the Bass to Biase he was just finishing up a restoration on a small Yankee Bass that was labelled and sure enough except for the size, it was the exact same Scroll, pegbox and tear drop button as my Bass.

Or at least good copy

Talk about timing thats nice!

GriffithLea · #9 09-22-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

The maple plates I made will look as if the Bass was made with them when Biase is done with the Bass. The Scroll is something I felt I had to do myself just to get some personal touch with the restoration.

What did you use to attach the plates to the tuner box?

nthoman · #10 09-23-2006, 10:35 AM

First off I'd like to thank the "forum" for responding to my request for help so quickly and graciously. As a rookie luthier and to the forum as well I tried to make my entry (thread?-not much of a computer user either) as brief as I could. As you can see I was not successful at being succinct and still managed to confuse some of you.
In no specific order: 1. Paul W. There are 12 plus stringed instruments in this household and only three of them have scrolls and pegboxes-know the difference, headstock just slipped out..sorry 2. Jimmy M. The bass, as I received it, had been stripped of parts prior to acquisition. Whoever had it, once they decided not to repair it, took everything off it, who knows how long ago. That is why I do not have the original machine heads. Actually, in addition to what I had listed they also, of coarse, salvaged the tailpiece and even the soundpost was missing. The issue of the soundpost may just have been that of rough handling jarring it loose due to no string tension on the top to stablize it and resulting in it's loss. 3. Other than the repaired crack on the left side, the pegbox has no damage. The new machines just do not fit (6mm on center WIDER than the original holes) Jeff B. I did not know if hunting for an old set was a Quixotic quest, as you suggest, or if they were readily available and I simply did not know the sources. If plugging and redrilling is not a "no-no" as you and Ken Smith demonstrate, I can proceed. It's just that if the units were available it would merely be 16 screws and I'd be finished. 4. Thanks all for the pictures: Gary Upton, "no it's not that bad!" If I had seen that, maybe I would have thrown it in the dumpster, although Ken Smith's beautiful repair shows otherwise.

Thanks Again,

nthoman

drurb · #11 09-23-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Why the hostility Gary?

I kept looking around for hostility. Was it a post I missed? Was it a PM? It was the comment about Elmer's with a smiley face?!

Ken-- seems it was a joke. Lighten up, buddy.

Jeff Bollbach · #12 09-23-2006, 01:56 PM

Someday some luthier will curse at that glue. At least use the original Titebond, Ken.

JimmyM · #13 09-24-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Basses don't have headstocks...they have scrolls..and a tuning box!..that drives me nuts!
(if you haven't noticed)

Waaaaahhhhhh! Geez, lighten the heck up!

Jeff Bollbach · #14 09-24-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Waaaaahhhhhh! Geez, lighten the heck up!

Y'see there's this thing called Jazz and in it there are some folks who have been around a while and accomplished a whole lot. Generally we treat them with a bit of respect and don't give them any crap. We'll let you slide this time.

Paul Warburton · #15 09-25-2006, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Waaaaahhhhhh! Geez, lighten the heck up!

Thanks Jeff. But no I won't lighten up! These wonderful instuments, the size of a human being, that we carry around and worry about, as if they were a human being, deserve the respect of us, who give our lives to them.
Imagine calling Jeffs gorgeous lion head.... a head stock!!!
Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh.....Right back atchaaaa!

JimmyM · #16 09-25-2006, 02:13 AM

I've devoted 30 years of my life to electric basses, too. But you don't hear me whining when one of you guys calls it a slab.

Well, actually I do. OK, never mind.

Paul Warburton · #17 09-25-2006, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I've devoted 30 years of my life to electric basses, too. But you don't hear me whining when one of you guys calls it a slab.

Well, actually I do. OK, never mind.

Jimmy, I wasn't whining...I was trying to educate you...
OK, never mind is right.