Old repairs...let them alone or...

MollyKay · #1 09-11-2007, 07:58 AM

I would like opinions on basses that have old stable repairs; do you leave them alone or try to make them better?

We are getting ready to move on to the next bass in our collection that needs restored. It is (what I think it is) a 1939 unlabeled Kay C-1. At some point in its life it has been painted and retired as a decoration piece (so sad) and is currently unplayable. We plan to strip the paint and give it a new varnish finish.

The dilemma is the neck and back, the repair is solid BUT if you look inside the bass you can see the neck was repaired with a toggle bolt down through the neck into the neck block. A toggle bolt would not be my choice of how to fix a broken neck…but there it is.

Also the back of the bass has been off and reattached with small finishing nails and glue.

We could go the whole way and take the back off, give it a new neck block and new neck or we can leave well enough alone and just refinish it and give it a new set up. Most often your pocket book determines how you approach your repairs. Because we are “do it yourselfers” and enjoy this process it could be a challenge or it could be a disaster. If we begin to pull the bass apart and find it has been repaired with white glue, epoxy, JB Weld or other mystery glues we could do more damage then good.

This bass was not a big investment and does have a story that it accompanied Grandpa Jones on stage in the 1940’s & 1950’s…but we can not prove any of its legacies (family stories)…so it is an old, unlabeled, plywood (junk food) bass that needs brought back to playing condition to be enjoyed. The bass will most likely end up being a bluegrass bass with a life style of jamming and outdoor festivals. I have seen some REALLY rough old Kay’s that have every form of non-approved repair and they still sound good…Of course a racing engine is fast and sounds good just before it blows up…opinions welcomed.

Silversorcerer · #2 09-11-2007, 11:48 AM

There are lots of basses with toggle bolts in the neck. Makes my neck hurt to think about it. However, it is probably more important that the neck be aligned properly, so if it is, it might be best to leave that one alone. I'd definitely get rid of the nails, and if the glue job is not a neat one, the back might have to come off to clean that up. If everything is there, you will just have to make the call on how much is worth it. Unfortunately if it was XYZ plywood instead of vintage Kay which for some unknown reason has value, it would not be worth much trouble. But Kays are really popular so it makes sense to save as many as can be patched up into good players.

Steve Swan · #3 09-11-2007, 11:57 AM

Nails don't hold anything. They'll just work loose over time and become rattling problems. Get rid of them and make sure that the glue joint(s) are solid for the back. If the nails were pounded in with enough force to "glue starve" the joint, there wasn't enough glue holding the back on in with this repair in the first place.

Good Luck!

P.S. Bow your head and give thanks for the music and good lives of Grandpa and Ramona Jones. They made the world a better place.

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 09-11-2007, 10:07 PM

I'd leave the neck alone and be tempted to remove the nails as Steve suggests, if only to save your tools in the refinishing process. I was just planing the edge of an old fingerboard and hit a nail. In the EDGE of the fingerboard? What the ?????

That said, this nice old bass has no less than eight screws through the back into the block and braces!!

toman · #5 09-12-2007, 09:45 PM

That is one odd instrument. What in the world is going on with the scroll/pegbox repairs...

**Matthew Tucker** · #6 09-12-2007, 10:20 PM

Its a neat scroll graft and upper cheek replacement, but a pity the wood colour didn't match better. In other photos, its a bit less visible. The insert at the top is, I believe, a tenon that runs across the top of the scroll for strength, and the ears of the scroll have been replaced. Must have had a hell of a knock at some point!

Eric Rene Roy · #7 09-12-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I was just planing the edge of an old fingerboard and hit a nail. In the EDGE of the fingerboard? What the ?????

That's why we did this:

When I had to do some work on a old New England bass! I love my Hock blades...and I hate re-grinding!

**Matthew Tucker** · #8 09-12-2007, 11:12 PM

I think of that X-ray very often, in fact just this morning as I was driving to work I was wondering whether I knew a dentist/chiropractor who would be prepared to do one for me, should the need ever arise!

But it wouldn't have helped me yesterday. I'm not going to get a wholebass x-rayed just in case ...

The fingerboard must have had one of these fitted, and someone left nails banged in the mounting holes and filled them over ...

(pic borrowed from Gollihur's site)

toman · #9 09-13-2007, 06:39 PM

I wonder how much it would cost to pick up an old, used basic x-ray machine. I'd think you could probably find one at an auction or something...

tbassist4 · #10 09-13-2007, 06:50 PM

Yeah, but how safe is that? Haha, they use radiation...

Even modern x-ray machines carry risks. That's why they make you wear a lead shield over the parts of your body with vital or important organs that aren't being x-rayed.

Are there really x-ray machines available to the public like that?

**Matthew Tucker** · #11 09-13-2007, 08:02 PM

I have a book called "The boy electrician" which shows how boys in the '30s could easily obtain an Xray tube and play with it at home ... scary stuff.

Now if only I could find a "luthier" application for Tesla coils ...

uptonbass · #12 09-14-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

But it wouldn't have helped me yesterday. I'm not going to get a wholebass x-rayed just in case ...

Well you know you should have your x-rays done once every six months

toman · #13 09-14-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbassist4

Yeah, but how safe is that? Haha, they use radiation...

Even modern x-ray machines carry risks. That's why they make you wear a lead shield over the parts of your body with vital or important organs that aren't being x-rayed.

Are there really x-ray machines available to the public like that?

Well, I don't think you'd want to be in the same room or anything, and yes, a lead apron or something would be appropriate. But I don't think it would be THAT big of a deal...

Just let me put on my tinfoil hat and lead cup and I'm good to go!