Open seam frustration -- temporary glue question

[ee-san]

A seam opened on the lower bout in the back and now I have a nasty buzz when I bow an open D, octave especially. This is the 3rd time this year that the seam has opened. Eventually I plan to have it repaired professionally (again) but I have gigs this weekend. Hence my question: Can I tack the seam temporarily with just a few drops of yellow glue just enough to hold over the weekend? I propose just a few spots here and there, not the whole seam, just enough to eliminate the buzz until I can get it to the shop. Would that much (or little) glue be a problem temporarily? We're talking about a fine old carved instrument that deserves professional attention. I'm not one to be heating up some hide glue and doing my own slathering.

Any advice is much appreciated.

[kurt ratering]

its possible that you have a damaged lining or maybe your ribs need to be shortened. if your going to be putting anything other than hide glue in the seam, i think that a few drops of white elmers would be better than yellow titebond, at least it would be easier to clean out.

[Marcus Johnson]

Franklin does make a premixed hide glue, available at any good hardware store.... it looks like a brown version of Titebond. No luthiers that I know recommend it for construction or serious long term repairs, and apparently it's wasteful to buy, because the short shelf life almost guarantees that you'll throw most of the bottle away. But it might be more appropriate for your situation than white glues, until you can get to a luthier to find out what's up with your bass.

Alternatively, you can use unflavored gelatin, available at any grocery store.... but that's pretty much the same process as using hide glue. It isn't that hard to do once you get the hang of it, but you need to get the temp and timing down, and have all the clamps ready to go. The seams needs to be cleaned out first. One of my luthiers applies the glue into the seam with a set of flat automotive feeler gauges.... that way, she has exactly the correct thickness applicator for any seam.

[DallasStrings]

I once had a Knilling bass that I constantly had to glue seams on since it was pretty green, usually twice a year at minimum. I was in high school/college and wasn't yet a luthier. The best solution was to just buy some granulated hide glue off a reputable internet supplier and glue it properly myself. I also made clamps out of threaded rod, wing-nuts and plywood keyhole saw rounds lined with cork. All in all, the supplies cost me as much as it would cost me to send it to a luthier once or twice..

I usually give this advice to those poor souls I see over and over with seam problems. It's not cost effective if you don't have seams popping open regularly..

Edit: The granulated hide glue has a near unlimited shelf life if it stays cool and dry. You can mix up small amounts for when you need them. A pound of hide glue will be enough to last a lifetime for your purposes..

[Marcus Johnson]

I agree, over the long run. Every bass owner should learn how to use hide glue on popped seams. Most people I know practice on scrap wood first, before trying it on the bass.

Since ee-san is looking at some gigs in a couple of days, maybe the bottled stuff might be the quickest fix just this once.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Every bass owner should learn how to use hide glue on popped seams.

Well, maybe not every bass owner. If you 1) live within easy driving distance of your luthier, 2) rarely have problems with popped seems, and 3) aren't too adept with wood I see no reason to be a DIYer. As if you couldn't guess, those three things describe my situation.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Since ee-san is looking at some gigs in a couple of days, maybe the bottled stuff might be the quickest fix just this once.

Great idea - it won't hold terribly well but that's a good thing in this case. Go with the liquid hide glue.

[ee-san]

Folks,

Many thanks for your input. I have plenty of clamps so I'm guessing I'll go with the pre-mixed stuff to get me through the holiday weekend. I agree that it's cost-effective to learn how to hot-glue so I'll start practicing scrap wood when the time pressure is lower than this week. The bass has been pretty well-behaved up until this year and lives in a consistent room climate at home so I don't know what has changed significantly. I will be consulting a different bass doctor after the weekend to get another pro opinion.

EE

[Matthew Tucker]

an alternative would be to use light-tack painters masking tape to hold the seam closed. That's the blue stuff. Not pretty but it will stop the buzz till you get to see a luthier and have it fixed. It's on the back anyway so won't be too visible, and the blue stuff wont stick to the varnish. As a repairer I think I'd prefer to deal with a lightly taped seam than one glued with anything other than the proper stuff.

[Darren Molnar]

A little gentle heat and water might re-constitute the old glue enough to hold together for the while. take a thin dull cheese knife or similar, put the blade in a shallow pot of water and heat it up at the lowest setting on the stove. When it's mildly hot, take the blade with a bit of water on it, apply between the seam in one area and hold it there for a few seconds, then remove the blade and clamp. repeat this in a few spots, and Bob's your uncle. Possibly

[Darren Molnar]

Alternatively, if you have one of those household steam cleaners, you could quickly shoot the seam, and quickly clamp. The theme of my two posts is that the old glue didn't disappear, it should still be there, and moisture and heat would re-flow it well enough for a temporary repair.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Darren Molnar

Possibly

I never like that word when I'm on the bandstand.

PS... I agree, though... that steam and clamp thing's worth a try.

[uprightben]

I'm with Mathew about using tape. I like clear scotch tape, it doesn't mare the finish either and is a little more subtle.

The idea of using liquid hide glue is interesting, but wouldn't the urea in that stuff linger in the joint and comprimise it even after a proper repair? (genuine question- I have no idea)

[ee-san]

A couple nights ago I tried the blue painter tape first since I already had some and it was easy to apply. That didn't help at all. Clamping the seam closed eliminated the buzz completely so I contemplated playing my weekend gigs with a clamp on the bass. It would be at the bottom and not very obvious. However, I already had bought the pre-mixed hide glue (about 7 dollars at the local hardware store) so yesterday morning I cleaned the old glue with a hot knife, applied the new glue, and clamped the seam closed over night. This morning I removed the clamps and, so far, the seam is holding closed. Nonetheless, I will bring a clamp to my gigs in case the seam pops open again. According to my gauge at home, humidity around here is about 80% these days. That's typical for this time of year, especially near the water. I read a research report comparing the pre-mixed hide glue to the hot mix hide glue that stated that the pre-mix lost its bond more quickly than the hot-mix in high humidity. So, now I'll be tracking time to failure and then it's off to the bass doctor. I'll let you know the results.

[DallasStrings]

That hide glue you bought will probably work for a while. Though the amount of urea in the liquid hide glue helps preserve it for shelf life, but it also makes it readily absorb moisture quicker and weakens the bond. While your bass is glued with that stuff, you might use the time to acquire some granulated hide glue and plan on opening the seam and re-gluing it properly just to be safe.

[Square Bear]

.

should've read all the posts! my bad.

this is still a genuine question of mine to the luthiers out there - isn't it better to just clamp the seam closed until you can get a professional to look at it rather than trying to deal with gluing it yourself? haven't really had seam problems too much, but i think that's what i would do.

[1st Bass]

Seam gluing isn't too hard-- you can
1. make a dozen spool clamps,
2. clean the seam with warm water and a brush,
3. heat hide glue in the microwave, in a teacup,
4. brush it in, thin, using a cheap stiff artist's brush, and a thin pallette knife,
5. clamp quickly,
6. clean thoroughly, using warm water, and
7. leave it over night to dry.

Hard to go far wrong.

[Square Bear]

i'm sure it's an easy thing to do. i personally don't have hide glue on hand, and in a pinch with a gig coming up or some other time constraints, i may not have the time to figure out how to repair a seam. these things tend to happen at the most inconvenient times, ya know. anyways, what i'm asking is if for one reason or another i didn't want to/have the time/knowhow/materials to repair a seam, isn't the best thing to just put a clamp on the bass, play my gig, and deal with it later? i'm just surprised this solution was never offered in this thread.

[Matthew Tucker]

The OP started the thread saying your bass was a fine old instrument and the good suggestions here have been ones that will protect it from damage.

We don't know what kind of clamp you have; if you have a valuable bass we'd rather you don't just clamp it up with any old steel G clamp and risk banging that mid-gig into the hi-hat stand and sending a new crack shooting up into the F hole and ripping an ugly scar into the fine varnish ...

that's why I suggested tape solution and why others have said run some hot water into the crack.

[Treyzer]

Square Bear,
Your profile says your in Sacramento. Contact Jeff Sahs. He's pretty close to Sac State and/or Sac Community College. He will do you right. He is good and reasonable. Don't mess with this type of thing yourself.