perforated basses

**Matthew Tucker** · #1 09-10-2009, 04:42 PM

Here's a crack repair technique I've been coming across a lot lately.

The repairperson appears to have drilled tiny holes through the ribs of the bass along the crack, threaded a piece of wire or thread through the hole and out through the FFs, then attached a cleat to the wire, which is then pulled back through the FFs to cleat the back of the crack. then I suppose the wire is removed when the glue is set.

But i don't think its a very satisfactory repair because you end up with this sort of result on the inside with bad contact and grain running any old direction.:

I can see that this might be a quick cheap way to cleat a rib crack without removing a top, but I find it a pity to see basses old and new with varnish riddled with holes that no-one has even bothered to try to conceal!

cmlax21 · #2 09-10-2009, 04:49 PM

Hmm. I guess you just have to make a choice. A crack in your bass or a bunch of holes.

bassteban · #3 09-10-2009, 04:52 PM

That is a bit hard on the eyes. I had a split in my top repaired by Jeff Sahs in a somewhat similar manner; he drilled a small hole & inserted a clamp(the clamp was held together by a thin wire); after the glue had set up the clamp was removed, the tiny hole patched & nearly invisible.
[freely endorses Jeff Sahs' work]

Paul Warburton · #4 09-10-2009, 07:47 PM

If done correctly, this can be of great help in a non-invasive repair technique.

Hints: Jewelers drill and bit. Jewelry wire. (very tiny stuff).
For a clamp, a guitar tuning gear mounted on a small block of wood with rubber added to bottom so as not to mar the bass. Tighten up that sucker to pull up the cleat that has been carved, lined up (cross grain wise and pyramid shaped), and glued up correctly.
That hole will be so small nobody could see it with a tiny touch up.
Invasive only if you consider a wire going through an F hole invasive.

hdiddy · #5 09-10-2009, 07:53 PM

There's something about this repair that bothers me. It seems to be an effective, but cheap and sloppy way to get a fix working. Regardless how small, I do not want holes drilled into the bass to be left, esp if they're not filled. Maybe it's ok for cheap basses but anything worth a damn, forget it.

Ken McKay · #6 09-10-2009, 09:42 PM

I use magnets for that type of repair to bring the crack back together and then place a strip of linnen inside to reinforce it. I suppose I might consider a tiny hole with wire like Paul described but I haven't done that in quit a while, years and years.

Paul Warburton · #7 09-10-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

There's something about this repair that bothers me. It seems to be an effective, but cheap and sloppy way to get a fix working. Regardless how small, I do not want holes drilled into the bass to be left, esp if they're not filled. Maybe it's ok for cheap basses but anything worth a damn, forget it.

No, thanks.
I remember two basses in Brescia Italy, where they were made, by Garparo DaSalo and Giovanni Paulo Maggini. Both had fine repairs using this technique. Weigh that against pulling a top or back plate off of basses of this value and....well.
And yes, diddy, the holes were filled with fine wood perfectly matching the original wood. Both museum quality instruments, 1600's as I remember.
The only way we could find the repairs was by looking inside with a flashlight. And that wasn't easy.

Ed Fuqua · #8 09-10-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

The only way we could find the repairs was by looking inside with a flashlight. And that wasn't easy.

After how much scotch?

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 09-10-2009, 11:18 PM

I suppose the repairs I've seen are just not finished properly. And the holes seem way bigger than they need to be.

Paul Warburton · #10 09-11-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

After how much scotch?

Scotch? In Italy? Yer nutz.

A gallon of fine Chianti and I could find a hole in anything.

(Speaking of scotch, I was there with Pharaoh Sanders. The drummer Sunship, as he was known in those days, almost made me wanna drink anything). Holy ****.

Ed Fuqua · #11 09-11-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

(Speaking of scotch, I was there with Pharaoh Sanders. The drummer Sunship, as he was known in those days, almost made me wanna drink anything). Holy ****.

Man, I can't wait till you get here.

Paul Warburton · #12 09-11-2009, 10:09 AM

Mike Arnopol · #13 09-11-2009, 01:13 PM

Those holes were way bigger than necessary. I've seen these repairs done with minute holes and wire and finished so that they were invisible. I agree with Paul. If you have an old bass, you want the top removed as infrequently as possible. What I've done is have the repairs done in this fashion and wait until a big job needs to be done and clean up everything on the inside.

Paul Warburton · #14 09-11-2009, 02:30 PM

+1.
That's zactly what Unka Toad just did with the Queen.
(Man, that sounds right nasty.

)

Nnick was the appointed surgeon.

Ken McKay · #15 09-11-2009, 06:28 PM

An one more thing Matthew, those kockeyed cleats could have been placed more carefully to be the correct orientation to reinforce the grain better and look right also.

**Matthew Tucker** · #16 09-11-2009, 08:24 PM

But is that really possible to control well, on the end of a thin wire deep in the bowels of the bass in the time between hot glue blob on and glue gelled?

Ken McKay · #17 09-11-2009, 08:38 PM

Actually, yes it is. Careful set up, a long tool to go in through the f hole, preferrably 3 hands, a warm room and no excuse for doing a sloppy job just because it hard.

I think I prefer linnen though myself.

Paul Warburton · #18 09-13-2009, 07:24 AM

Actually, you can have complete control over placement and cross grain line-up by anchoring the cleat to the end of the wire so it doesn't move around. I ain't sayin' how though.

You guys are creative. See whatchoo come up with.

PS. It's all about the choice of the wire used in terms of size and stiffness. Tiny, strong and stiiff. (gettin' nasty again, sorry). There's a guy on the board that posts sometimes, who hates when I do that. That's why I do it. Drives him right up the wall.

james condino · #19 09-14-2009, 04:26 PM

That type of crack repair was illustrated in Don Teeter's book, "Acoustic Guitar Repair" from the 1970s ('not sure if it was vol. 1 or II). The basic idea is drill a small hole, stuff a thin string through the hole, thread a cleat on to the string, and then use an external guitar machine mounted to a little block to crank it all up and pull everything into position. Simple, low tech, moderately effective. Don told me when he was my neighbor in 1986 that it was a fairly outdated method by then, just like slipping the heel and redoing the binding instead of resetting a Martin guitar neck.

Have you got any crusty old guitar repairmen in your neighborhood telling everyone, "Sure I can fix it....it's just a big fiddle....and I won't charge you what those violin snobs do...."

j.
www.condino.com

Paul Warburton · #20 09-14-2009, 05:12 PM

Master Italian violin family luthiers have been using this effective, noninvasive technique for a few hundred years with amazing results on some of the finest violins, violas, celli, double basses, violone, and gamba family instruments in existence.
But, what the hell did/do they know.