Planning my bass build project

[Cody Sisk]

Ok I'm ready to dive off the deep end. I was recently inspired to plan out my first bass build project after a nice conversation with Aaron Reiley of Guarneri House. I had planned to first build a violin but he convinced me otherwise. "You're a bass player, build a bass!" he says. I can't argue with that point. I'd like to build a bass primarily for orchestral playing.

I'm in the research stage at this point. Here's my plan of action for now:

1. Buy Peter Chandler's book and Chuck Traeger's book.
2. Read them cover to cover a couple times.
3. Decide on a pattern
4. Begin looking for the"good vood" as my mentor would say..

So there are many of you here who have tackled this project and been successful. Can you offer any words of wisdom?

Maybe there are a few of you out there who have started building a bass but did not finish. If so, why did you stop? What obstacles should I be mindful of?

Liberal responses encouraged!

[MIKMAN]

Building a bass is an excellent idea and i admitt that it comes and goes often in my mind. I have built three violins with brilliant results but the bass project seems too much for me for the moment. My limited spare time and my arthritis are the crucial factors.

Chandler's book is well written but it is not a manual for a DIY project. The plans are quite useful since they contain all the necessary measurements. Many of our esteemed luthiers in this forum do not take the graduation plans at face value, but almost all of them agree that they can lead to a working bass.

Traeger's book is focused on repairs -actually the best IMHO in DB litterature- and it doesn't contain plans or guidelines. It offers solutions in various problems and it must be in every bassist's library.

Another useful book is Wake's, which describes all the various stages of the construction of a flatback. It requires though some experience and is not well suited for novices. The plans are well designed and useful.

I believe that it is better to start with a violin, in order to gain some experience and then to proceed with the bass project. Learning the use of the chisels, the scrapers, the varnishing etc is an art, so you need some time to learn it. From the other hand if you have this experience do it by all means. Even if the final outcome is not an Upton Concert or a Martin it will be your own "child" and this makes it invaluable.

Good luck.

Mike

[Ken McKay]

Cody I will be glad to answer any specific questions you have as will most other builders with experience.

[1st Bass]

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

I'm in the research stage at this point. Here's my plan of action for now:

1. Buy Peter Chandler's book and Chuck Traeger's book.
2. Read them cover to cover a couple times.
3. Decide on a pattern
4. Begin looking for the"good vood" as my mentor would say..

So there are many of you here who have tackled this project and been successful. Can you offer any words of wisdom?

Those are good plans, but I really think your idea about building a violin first might be wise.

I used those two books and counsel from the various luthiers on Talkbass to guide my thinking, but I had already built half a dozen smaller instruments, before I started, so I had absorbed some of the basics of lutherie already. I used Henry Strobel's books, as well as the Courtnall-Johnson book, and others, and had MUCH input from established luthiers.

When I got to the bass, I had only the luthiers from Talkbass, because most violinmakers simply will not consider making a bass, for a number of very practical reasons. I did it because I wanted to, same as you, so all the "practical reasons" went out the window.

Chet Bishop

[Paul Warburton]

Hey, Cody.
Just popped in to say good luck and have fun.

[james condino]

Patience, patience, patience....

I had a student in my shop a couple of years ago. His number one goal was to build a mandolin. He played the mandolin all of his life. He loved mandolin music, he ate, drank, and slept mandolin over two wives, several families, and a very successful commerciall fishing business. He also survived cancer. During all of those life events, all he ever dreamed about was building a simple A5 mandolin. Somewhere along the line, he spoke with a person who had never actually built a mandolin, but knew everything about building one from the web and they convinced him that it was too difficult a task for his first project. "You'll never complete it.... build a dulcimer first, to "hone" your skills...."

At the time I met him, he had built approximately 30 dilcimers- wonderful, progressive- some of the nicest dulcimers that I have ever seen. He hated them- every one of them. He sold them for several thousand dollars each, but he told me, "I'm not a #@$%&%$ dulcimer player- what good are they to me???? I've wasted so much time..." I got him started on the path to do what he wanted from the start- to build a mandolin for himself.

If you are a bass player, and want to build a bass, then build a bass!!!! No violin, bouzouki, cello, or hurdy gurdy, or other thing that will sidetrack you and wast the limited life energy and time that all of us have. Build a bass- for yourself. I couldn't think of a better way to spend your time...

That said, while I've built several hundred other instruments, I've only built one bass. It took three years of on again / off again time that I could squeeze in between other people's instruments and family and life. If I was completely uninterrupted ( which never happens), it is probably a six month project for your first one. If the project seems overwhelming- which is likely- try starting with a simpler goal. If you have an old ply bass that you like- a Kay or American Std or such- carve a nice top for it. That should be a manageable goal- both in terms of time and money. if that turns out well, mount it on your old ply and play it, while you are building the rest of the instrument. That way, you have something that you can use for a reasonable effort. If you build a completely new instrument on a grand scale that has no application for anything else, and you run out of steam, it will sit there.....and haunt you in your closet of anxieties and unfinished projects.

I bet I've met three or four dozen "wannabee" mandolin builders over the years who I tried to convince to build a simple A model for their first. Nope- they were all hellbent to build the most complex F5 they could imagine, and ran out of steam. So there their half finished project still sits- slowly warping away, unfinished in their closet of unfinished projects that....if you need that sort of baggage stuck in your head, why not just go out and get a new girlfriend half your age and see if you can pull it off without getting busted by your wife or family or boyfriend or whomever???? Maybee build a dulcimer first, to "ease into it and acquire skills...."

You are a bass player- build yourself a bass. It is a love and task that only a bass player can understand.

You can also feel free to call me up at the shop and we can chat away anytime...

j.
www.condino.com

[ctregan]

A violin could be built on a kitchen table; a bass would require a shop and most likely some machinery.

Acquire some basic woodworking skills before attempting this project.

Consider a Gamba shape, with a flat back, for your first.

Find an instrument that is comfortable to play, and copy the features that fit your playing needs. If you build from a purchased plan, there is no way "test drive" the bass first.

Be prepared to become a Hermit.

(my $.02 of advise)

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by ctregan

Acquire some basic woodworking skills before attempting this project.

Good idea huh, Cody?

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Good idea huh, Cody?

Heh, I guess some people don't know me too well here yet Paul. CT, thanks for the $.02 advice. Start me a tab . I have a shop large enough and well-equipped to accommodate this project. Though there are still a few tools I need for this project specifically. I also hopefully have a little more than basic woodworking skills. I've been a professional repair luthier now for a couple years. Here are some examples of my work thus far. These are repairs I've done and remembered to take pictures of!


I want my bass project in there so my customers can clearly see it. Having an unfinished instrument sitting in my shop only further legitimizes what I do. It'll also keep it in plain sight rather than in a closet somewhere, thus staring me down should my motivation decrease.

Thanks for your input James! I have looked at your blonde bass build thread several times now. Though my first bass probably won't be as progressive, it was educational nonetheless!

It looks like I need to save my money for books! Thanks Mike, Chet and CT for the suggested reading. I don't see reading all of them as being a bad idea..

[james condino]

Cody:
Having your bass in the shop, either finished or in progress will be a great one for business. Everyone wants to check out my build and it seems to have quite a buzz going with all of the local and regional players. Even if I was to consider selling it, from a business standpoint it doesn't make very good sense. While I could get a nice chunk of change from the one time sale, it will likely bring in $75k worth of other bass related work over the next decade.

Beyond all of that- the thing is a blast to play!

As a side note, I built almost the entire instrument using just hand tools, as somewhat of a professional challenge for myself. I did sub out a friend's resaw and thickness sander to dimension the ribs for about an hour and I used a bandsaw to rough out the neck profile. Everything else was done by hand. Maybee that's why it took me three years instead of three months....

j.
www.condino.com

[forester]

post lots of pics, so we can scrutinize your every move,bring attention to your short comings,and quarrel amongst ourselves over petty matters.

good for you...now get whittling, surely it will warm the hearts of many this winter

[MIKMAN]

Dear Cody, from the examples you showed us it's more than clear that you are an accomplished user of the luthier's tools, so actually there is no reason to postpone the bass project. As James wisely said the bass is your instrument, so you have to focus on it. It's a privilege for this forum to have many respectable luthiers as members, so you'll have a strong reference and support basis for any possible problem. Needless to say that your success will be a strong and encouraging paradigm for all of us, the aspiring "part time luthiers", to pursue a bass project.
Good luck and enjoy it.
Mike

[Matthew Tucker]

Why would anyone bother to make anything BUT a bass? Sorry Chet, I know you make nice violins, but when people play them they'll still squeak

[MIKMAN]

[QUOTE: If the project seems overwhelming- which is likely- try starting with a simpler goal. If you have an old ply bass that you like- a Kay or American Std or such- carve a nice top for it. That should be a manageable goal- both in terms of time and money. if that turns out well, mount it on your old ply and play it, while you are building the rest of the instrument. That way, you have something that you can use for a reasonable effort. QUOTE]

This brilliant idea, admittedly, never passed my mind.James i owe you, you gave me a tangible project. If you ever visit Greece let me buy you some beers, or whatever drinks you like. I've started already looking for bass top tonewood. In my warehouse lies a ply Strunal 50/4 eager to take a new carved top.
Thanks
Mike

[1st Bass]

I confess that, though I am a bass, I am not a bassist, so that aspect of the project has no effect on me. I love the making, and love the finished product, and love to hear others play them.

1. they do take more time
2. they do cost a great deal more to build
3. they do require a bigger space in which to work
4. some aspects of the work are more challenging than the same task on the smaller instruments

All that being said, Matthew and James have an excellent point: if that is where your heart is, then, by all means, start there.

There is a young computer engineer over on MN whom I coached through his first violin. (He actually is a cellist, and wanted to build a cello.) He had zero woodworking experience, and had never sharpened a tool before. The violin he built (being persuaded by me and others that it would be a good idea) is pretty stinkin' good for a first try, and only slowed him down to the extent that he got in a fairly short practice run.

He is now working on the cello. Mold complete, ribs in progress. The violin project really did not distract him from his primary goal, and I believe it helped toward making sure that cello will be a stunner. Depends on what you do with the time.

Dallas, it sounds as though you are already fully prepared to begin your project. Press on!

Chet Bishop

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

I'm in the research stage at this point. Here's my plan of action for now:

1. Buy Peter Chandler's book and Chuck Traeger's book.
2. Read them cover to cover a couple times.
3. Decide on a pattern
4. Begin looking for the"good vood" as my mentor would say..

Cody, you don't need books and you don't need to waste time researching. You take apart and put together instruments for a living, so you know how they are made. Design your own pattern and scroll; this will be far more rewarding than using someone else's patterns. Go to one of the big box stores and buy a sheet of birch plywood. Build a mold. Build and attach blocks. Now you are committed to the project.

The hardest thing about building a bass is getting the sequence right. I flubbed it badly the first time. Learn from other folks' mistakes. Decide whether you want to use the German method (plates trimmed and purfling installed before attaching plates to rib assembly) or the Italian method (do it after the plates are attached). Get started NOW, before inertia sets in.

[Marcus Johnson]

As a complete numbskull know-nothing in the art of bass luthiery.... how much time would one normally have to allow for the tonewoods to be ready to use when building a double bass?