Problem with repairman

[Jeff Guevin]

Hi all,

I recently had a small accident that damaged my double bass, creating a ding in the lower bout about 2 inches long and half an inch wide--basically a small strip of wood was pushed into the bass about a millimeter. I took it to an experienced repairman and restorer, but my experience with him has been very frustrating. The upshot is that I wanted to ask others who do this sort of work what they think of this story, and of what I've been told by "my" repairman. Thanks in advance for any observations/advice/insights!

1. I took the bass in for repair on Mar. 20. I had purchased the bass from the same person who would repair it, and every time I spoke to him he told me how it is "one of his favorites". Accordingly, he told me he would give the bass high priority in his busy schedule.
2. One week later when I called, he had not yet looked at the bass.
3. Another week later, he told me he thought the best way to handle it would be to remove the top and repair it from the inside. He said he would need to have a good eight hours of uninterrupted time to do so, because time is critical after removing the top--the repair should be done quickly and the top replaced to avoid warping which will compromise how well the top fits back on. But he would get to it as quickly as possible.
4. Two weeks later, I called to check on it. I was lectured about how I "didn't understand the business", told that I was "stressing him out", and that he would be getting to it as soon as possible. I assured him I wasn't trying to stress him out, that I still wanted him to proceed and do his best work, etc. At this point it was clear that he's a prima donna about his work, but I believe he does do good work, and decided to just go with it. He told me that at the outside, it would be done in four more weeks.
5. Five weeks later, I called and couldn't get through. For the next week, I kept trying, though I only left 2 messages (I didn't want to seem like I was stalking him). After getting to the point that I thought I was going to have to go to his house and claim my bass, he finally called back. He was very nice, and said that he had had to take a short trip to take care of some unrelated business, and had been out of town for 1 1/2 weeks. He told me he almost had the top of the bass off, and would soon have the work completed. Since I had an upcoming vacation, we arranged for the work to be done by the time I returned from vacation, 3 1/2 weeks later.
6. One day before returning from my vacation, I called to check on the status. This time I was met with another lecture about "not understanding the business", how he couldn't get work done if I kept calling (keep in mind that this was my fifth time talking to him in well over two months), and on and on about his stress level. This time I didn't take it lying down, and told him that I thought in no business would a customer who checks back at an appointed time receive such a response, and that my call in fact was at the time we had arranged. The repair was done at this time, though, and only varnishing remained to be done, so we arranged to give it two more weeks.

At this point I have another week before I need to call him again to see if the bass is in fact ready. His manner of dealing with me has ensured that I will never be back, but before I speak with him again, I wonder whether those "in the business" can tell me whether I'm off base in my expectations, or the way that I've behaved. I'm a pretty calm guy, and except in the instance of the second "lecture", approached the repairman with all the patience I could muster. However, I believe that, having never received one phone call from the guy with an update, checking back every few weeks is reasonable, and that ten weeks for a bass repair, when initial estimates were about four weeks at the latest, is pretty remarkable. Thanks for your thoughts!

[Dr Rod]

It's always risky to make a judgement whilst hearing only one side of the story, however, if what you say is a fair account of the deal, I think this man is acting irresponsibly.

I had a similar experience once and I just went there and politely asked for my instrument back. I explained to him that we just didn't understand each other. I took the bass in two pieces but my blood pressure went back to normal.

Just keep your cool (I know how hard it is !!) and find a person that you can work with.

Best of lucks,

Rod

[Mark Carlsen]

Well I'll be the first to chime in.... I'm both a player, first, and a luthier [At least I play one on TV] ,second and this cat is a Skitzoid !!!
My thing w. clients is CUSTOMER SERVICE and if I was a client,as I was for many years w. David Gage, Lenny Harlos,etc I expect what I am paying for, not to be someone's shrink.
That said, pay your bill , get your bass back [Hopefully fixed] and move on to a better luthier.
What part of the country do you live, if I may ask ??

[Eric Rene Roy]

Hi Jeff...I like your bunny.

Anyway, I think your guy is in the wrong. There are five of us in the shop now...and enough work for ten. things get hectic. I have been going in 2 hours early all week...and I know Jack stayed "until the bass is done" last night as a prospect was coming in to audition it today. We try to go the extra mile. But, things can get out of time expectations. I have been restoring a bass for about a 1.5 years now. At times it is my primary focus...and at others it has to take a back seat to other work. The bass is like putting back together King Tut. But...I eMail updates (not as often as I should...but I do) and I rely on our stringrepair.com website. That site has turned into such a blessing as people can "watch" the work happen...and use the site as the update tool as I upload pictures througout the week (usually from my couch at home).

So, my point? Any good luthier has too much work on the plate...that's the biz! It's how you manage and deal with it that sets you apart from the rest. Yor guy sounds like he is reacting to situations, not managing situations...and it has cost him a customer.

[uptonbass]

Originally Posted by Mark Carlsen

What part of the country do you live, if I may ask ??

jguevin ????

[Jeff Guevin]

Thanks for all the replies so far, folks! I live in the MidWest--obviously I don't want to be so specific as to implicate any particular person. If you think you have it figured out, please PM me rather than post here

Interestingly, I just got a call this morning, and it looks like were on track for picking it up in a week. I'll be very glad to have this behind me.

[bassdogEmer]

Got to his place of work with a big lead pipe. Gently explain to him that he is infact an ass and that you would like to have your bass and your money back. Tell him you have been working on 5 over 4 cross rhythms and that unless you get your bass you will try them out on his kneecaps. I have used lutheirs all over the country. I have never heard of someone giving a client that kind of treatment - to boot, a client who he sold a bass to...unbelievable.

[Damon Rondeau]

Originally Posted by jguevin

I'm a pretty calm guy, and except in the instance of the second "lecture", approached the repairman with all the patience I could muster.

Man, obviously you have a lot of patience to muster!

[arnoldschnitzer]

[quote=eroy]Hi Jeff...I like your bunny.

The bass is like putting back together King Tut. [quote]

Do you mean Humpty-Dumpty?

[nicklloyd]

Go get the bass. Now.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

King Tut? Humpty Dumpty? Is that what goes thru your minds when restoring a bass? No wonder why things take so long..

Anyway jguevin, with having only a single bass which to many means the world to them, a few weeks can seem like a year. I have had many Basses in repair and full restoraions over the years. When it's just one of my basses, I wait for the call to come get it. When it's one of my 'honeys' or at times in the past 'my main Bass' I get very very anxious.

Arnold can tell you that about me. With 2 of the Basses he did for me, I didn't care when it would be done but some others, I just look for an excuse to call and sneak in the question "hows the Bass coming along?".

Be patient as no one knows his work load or work habits. Taking a top off a Bass as new and pretty as yours is and to do a nice rib repair may not be as simple as it looks. It is not difficult to create more work to put it back together than the time to do the initial repair. It sounds like he wants to do it when he can do it right and efficiently.

I saw the pics of your Bass on your webpage. Show us the pics when the Bass is completed.

[Tbeers]

Sounds like a minor repair to me. If he's too busy for something like that, he shouldn't have taken your bass in the first place.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Tbeers

Sounds like a minor repair to me. If he's too busy for something like that, he shouldn't have taken your bass in the first place.

Taking the top off is never minor. Sometimes easier than other times but never minor. In 1970 or so, my only Bass (early 20th century German/Czech gamba, hat peg gears, Juzek/Wilfer style) got a Rib puncture about 4"x3" on the outer lower bout. At that time the only repair person I knew was Andre Fantoni so I took it to him. The rib broke in several small pieces like a puzzle. For this, the top was taken off, pieced back together and patched properly. I never considered this a minor, easy or simple repair even to this day.

With new basses you never know how well they were made or what glues were used. With older basses you have no idea what might fall apart in the process. One of my oldest basses was just opened up a few weeks ago for the first time maybe since the shoulders were cut in the latter part of the 19th century (1814 S.Gilkes). The Top came off clean because it was always fixed from the outside and all the linings were all chewed up. This made for eaiser top removal because the Top was barely attached. I knew this when I bought the Bass from all the Glue drips on the back, the ugly rib repairs as well as having to glue the top or back almost everytime I picked up the bass. When I was first testing the Bass out on trial and had to glue a few things myself, I called and asked the dealer, "does this Bass come with a bottle of Glue?".

Talk about sound compression loss. The last time there was a leak like this, Noah built a Boat!!

Arnold said that in the approximate 1,000 Tops he's removed in his life, this was by far the easiest and quickest. It came off in about 15 minutes with zero damage to the edges. He also mentioned that a Vacume Hose blowing air thru the endpin might of done it just as quickly but I think he was making a joke, or maybe not.

That's gotta be some kind of world record for the time and condition of the edges after removal combined.

Anyway, in a nutshell, you can never predict what will be easy or hard when the Bass goes under the knife...

[Eric Rene Roy]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Do you mean Humpty-Dumpty?

Depends on the day really...

[nicklloyd]

It sounds like your repairman is jerking you around. If he is backlogged and can't get to it in 6 weeks, 2 months, or 6 months, etc. he should have told you in the first place. Stringing a customer along and telling them "they don't know the business" is total jibber jabber. Restorations can take a long time, and this isn't a restoration. This a minor repair that should have been done by now... (unless there is another side to this story we aren't hearing.)

[Damon Rondeau]

...see now, that's sensible talk. This "you don't understand the business" stuff is definitely not sensible talk. If he can ill-treat customers with that kind of communication, this guy had better be among the best. Otherwise why put up with it?

[Marcus Johnson]

Even if he were among the best, he'd be pretty much useless to me, unless he wanted to loan me a comparable bass during this hyperextended repair so that I could continue to make a living. Talk about "not knowing the business"... it sounds as though this guy has never done work for a pro bassist before. What should I do in the meantime, flip burgers to pay the mortgage?

[uptonbass]

Is repair a part-time gig for the guy? I would go put my eyes on the instrument.

[Jeff Guevin]

Nick, at times I've been very inclined to take that approach, but I believe I'm almost at the end, and not much would be served by cutting the process short now. I certainly agree about the "jibber jabber", though--the man needs a therapist, and it won't be me.

Ken, thanks for the perspective on the difficulties involved. My only resource up to now has been the repairman himself, so it's good to hear some of what he's said echoed by someone who really knows.

As to the guy himself, he's full-time, and from what I can tell he does good work. He certainly carries quality basses for sale, and sets up them up very well. The minor work I've had him do on an EUB was well done, for what that's worth. But yes, Marcus, I agree, he's useless to me from here on out, regardless of how well the work is done. I'm finished with him, once the bass is in my hands.

I've had an EUB to play in the meantime, and I'm sure I could have obtained a loaner from the guy--IF I had known that it would take so long! The moving target is the second-worst thing about the situation--the first being his abominable ego and attitude.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll post pictures when all is done.

[uptonbass]

jguevin, Your too nice of a guy (thats a great thing), lets just hope you have a bass that's 100 percent in the end! And its this year.