Question about double bass intonation

[hgrind]

When I play a B (on the G-string) and an F, and go back and forth between them, I can hear and see on the tuner that I need to take the F a couple of mm longer down the neck. I've double checked my tuning on the open strings several times, and have seen that I've taken the B and F at an equal distance from the nut. Now, is this normal, is it something I don't understand, or is there something I have to do about the setup (bridge?)? I've tried to move the leg on the G-string side of the bridge a little, and I think it helped a little, but it's still not quite there. What do you think? Could it be the setup, or is it just me? If it's the setup, is there something I can fix myself, and how?

[Paul Warburton]

Hi...I'm a bit confused about your question. So....are you saying that you are playing the B with your fouth finger on the G string? (Simandl first position). SI? NO? Then what?
Now, where and on which string and with what finger are you playing the F?

No matter what, I do not think you should be moving your bridge around to address intonation problems.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Not sure I understand your question correctly, but B and F should not be an equal distance from the nut on any two strings. B on the 1st string and F# on the 2nd string should be, though...

[Gearhead43]

What's all this "B F" and "nut" business?

[dchan]

I think he means he plays the B on the G-string and the F on the D-string at the exact same position on the fingerboard, when it should be F#.

Are you sure your strings aren't in tune? I've never really heard of this problem.

[Andrew McGregor]

Surely it doesn't matter? The position of notes depends on a whole bunch of factors anyway, there's no substitute for simply getting the feel of the instrument, including where all the notes are by default, as it were.

[alangoldstein]

first get the height somewhat where u want it , ( your going to adjust it again after you intonate )

to make this ez,

if the fretted note is sharp, compared to the open or 12th fret harmonic u need to make the saddle go closer to the strap button on the bottom of the bass.

if the fretted notes are FLAT u need to to adjust the saddles to go TOWARDS the nut. once matching, with tuner, adjust height ( action ) and try again

this is how i do it. hope i typed it correctly

[Paul Warburton]

MARCUS!
'Les get out while we can...we're surrounded by idiots. Come on, hurry hurry..there's not a lot of time left.....I tried to be normal here. Look at my post. Isn't that kinda NORMAL? Is it Me? NO, not again, NO, it can't be ME again?!!!
No siree, not me, not again. Come on, Marcus hurrry, hurry up.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Hi...I'm a bit confused about your question. So....are you saying that you are playing the B with your fouth finger on the G string? (Simandl first position). SI? NO? Then what?
Now, where and on which string and with what finger are you playing the F?

No matter what, I do not think you should be moving your bridge around to address intonation problems.

DURRL!!......
LOOK at that there, above....That's normal ain't it? Huh? Not too bad is it??? Looks kinda normal to me. I been doin' pretty good haven't I...??? Come on, man....get Marcus and we'll get the hell outta here.. SEE? That's it... move yer legs, flap yer hands, here comes Charlie........................................One more post and they got me pinned in................................................ ...............................
DURRL, 'Les get out while we can...c'mon Marcus...here we go, now.

[hgrind]

I see I've messed up one important thing. I meant Bb (is that how you write it?) on the G-string and F on the D-string. I'm from Norway, where many say H about the B and B about the Bb. Sorry!
The problem also applies to the A on the G-string and E on the D-string, B-F#, C-G and so on.

Maybe I should just have asked: how do you intonate a double bass.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by hgrind

I see I've messed up one important thing. I meant Bb (is that how you write it?) on the G-string and F on the D-string. I'm from Norway, where many say H about the B and B about the Bb. Sorry!
The problem also applies to the A on the G-string and E on the D-string, B-F#, C-G and so on.

I thought it might be something like that. If you're worried about the instrument not being up to snuff, you should have it checked by a luthier. How long have you been playing? Perception of space on a DB is always a bit skewed, especially when coming from another instrument; when I started, I felt that I had to play "farther along" the fingerboard on each successive lower string than on the higher one before to produce the same pitch, same as you. The worst note for this was always the low Ab on the E string - it seemed impossibly far from the nut before it was in tune.

Once I started practicing in front of a mirror, I found that the notes really were in about the same place on each string.

Maybe I should just have asked: how do you intonate a double bass.

With the ear, often with a system of technique (like Simandl, etc) and with lots and lots of practice. Do you have a teacher?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The title of the thread has been changed to reflect the focus on Double Bass. Lost souls from the BG side tend to make uncle Paul start foaming at the mouth...which, aside from being kind of unnerving, isn't very sanitary either.

[fdeck]

To be off by ~2 mm in first position, would require moving the bridge by ~20 mm to correct. This reinforces the view that technique is the only recourse.

If the nut is way too high, I could imagine it interfering with intonation in the lower positions, but I don't have a good sense of how high that would have to be in order to be a problem. In any event it would be easy to check.

[hgrind]

Thanks, Chris and fdeck. You have answered my questions.

[Marcus Johnson]

Save yourself, uncle.... I'll hold 'em off the best I can....

[Jake deVilliers]

hgrind, there are three simple ways for your intonation to be off, assuming that you are fingering correctly.

1) Its possible for the bridge to be off square and creating different string lengths
2) Differing string heights at the nut could be causing one string to sharpen as you stretch it down to the board
3) The strings may not be leaving the nut square to the centreline of the board, making your string lengths different at the other end from 1)

Now's a good time to spend a few minutes with a double bass repairman - you'll learn a lot about the instrument and get a start on building a relationship that you'll need later.

Good luck!

[Andrew McGregor]

So, the fingerboard's relief often makes half and first position quite different in spacing to what you would expect, along with nut height variation and differences in the elasticity of the strings (they stretch a tiny bit as you stop them, and obviously it's probably going to take a different amount of force to stretch the E compared to the G). But all of this is at the 2mm level along the string, and the volume you're playing at makes as much difference... so it's still within the bounds of what you should be expecting to have to compensate for with technique. Oh, and it's all temperature dependant too...

[kaybass1952]

"when I started, I felt that I had to play "farther along" the fingerboard on each successive lower string than on the higher one before to produce the same pitch, same as you.'

To this point , I had a very good classical teacher mention the above concept. Rational being due to the larger gauge of each successive string . I believe he was talking in terms of a very minuet difference.

[arnoldschnitzer]

[quote=kaybass1952;6752764 To this point , I had a very good classical teacher mention the above concept. Rational being due to the larger gauge of each successive string . I believe he was talking in terms of a very minuet difference.[/QUOTE]

Only when playing in 3/4 time...

[Paul Warburton]

Arnold..you surely DID beat me to that one....