Question for Laborie/EGG/Bent endpin users

[.matthew e wengerd.]

For those of you who use non-standard (i.e. bent) endpins, how is yours oriented in relation to the back?

Rabbath and his disciples have the endpin at a 90 degree angle to the back of the instrument. I know others have it at an angle.

a) Is your endpin at 90 degrees or another andgle and why?

b) If it is at another angle, what angle and why?

c) Please list the percieved benefits and drawbacks of the bent enpin.

d) Please give any other pertinent information to someone who is about to have a Laborie endpin installed.

Thanks!

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by .matthew e wengerd.

c) Please list the percieved benefits and drawbacks of the bent enpin.

I play in a sitting position, I am an orchestral bassist.

I bought an Eggpin 2 months ago and could not keep the bass from sliding to my right side. It's not for everyone.

I'm selling the Eggpin BTW.

[PB+J]

I bought a bent endpin because it was cheap. It's angled straight back, parrallel to the ribs, if that makes sense. like you took a regular enpin and just bent it towards the back of the bass.

I love it--it seems to take weight or stress off my left hand and it makes it easier to put weight into my right. It makes it comfortable and easy to stand more behind the bass. It feels like my left hand is freer and more fluid and my right is stronger

I'm a tall guy, six four, and I play almost entirely pizz on a tall 7/8 bass, standing. It works like a dream for me, it may not work for differenlty sized people or people who sit. Some people seem to find it annoying, others love it right away

Dr. Rod, I've gotta run, but I'll probably be contacting you about that eggpin

[christ andronis]

I got my bent endpin for my Chrissy from George Vance (through a post I read in this forum actually). It's bent at a 44 degree angle (don't know what the significance is of that particular angle) and it fits where my regular endpin does. The first thing I noticed was how it really changed the balance of the bass, which I was having a hard time with prior to that. I know Ray and others talk about how the weight shouldn't be on your thumb, but this bass had, to me, a very weird balance point that I was having a hard time finding causing me to, you guessed it, have the weight on my thumb...or at least most of it. The bent endpin (the pin comes out and goes toward the back of the bass. I think that's the advantage of the eggpin is that it allows you to experiment a little more with how you want to adjust it.)seems to have alleviated that problem and the bass balances, again, for me, much better with the weight almost completely off my thumb. Hope this makes sense. I too am tall, 6'3" and stand when I play.

[.matthew e wengerd.]

I'm still not really getting the right answers. I have already purchased a Laborie and am having it installed next week. The main point of my question (Parts a and b) focus on the angle relative to the back of the bass horizontally. Vance suggests all bent pins go at that 44 degree angle from vertical. I want to know if you have the pin coming straight out of the back of the instrument.

NUTELLA and PRESERVES, I know you probably already know this, but the Laborie is a much cheaper, lighter way to go.

STAFF, MD, I have never heard of someone trying a bent pin while sitting. I'm sure it's done, but one of the reasons I'm going with the Laborie is to create a more comfortable standing stance so I don't need to lug a stool around. It might be worth giving a try standing.

JESUS ANDROID, I tried a bent pin and found the same effect. The thing I didn't like was that the small amount of time I had the pin in caused damage to my endpin set screw from the torque of the bent pin. Because my bass is quite large, the moment I experimented with the angle, the weight of the bass would tear up the tip of the set screw.

[PB+J]

Mathew wingnut, I have the Goerge Vance pin too and it works fine for me, but I'm interested in the egg pin because I could experiment with the angle. I don't know if I would like it better if the pin was bending straight back (call it 6) or at , say, four oc'lock. My plan is to get the eggpin, experiment with anngles, and when it's the way i want it, get my bass drilled for the laborie endpin at that angle

[.matthew e wengerd.]

I actually bent my own which may have been part of the problem. My teacher had his drilled 15 degrees off (think seven o'clock) and it was too much. I'll so mine somewhere in between.

[Alex Scott]

I have mine about 7:30 and I am not sure I like it there. It may be that it is not quite the 44 Degrees, but when I tried an eggpin in different ways, I liked the angle. I am about 6'2" or so and I have heard for taller people that the straight back pin tends to be wobbly side to side as it gets longer, so the angle helps keep it in place.

I might have mine redone at some point. Does anyone know how to have it filled in? Just have a plug made and glued in?

Thanks

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

Does anyone know how to have it filled in? Just have a plug made and glued in?

Pretty much yeah that's it. A little dressing up might be in order to make it flush and pretty looking though.

If you want to do it yourself, you'll need tools of course.

[dperrott]

I think my Laborie is the 44 degrees. It is drilled in the center,
at the edge of the back of the bass. Does that make sense?
Rufus Reid said he found his spot with the help of the egg pin.
He found the right spot for the balance then had it drilled. His
is drilled off center. In my opinion, unless you use the egg-pin
to find the off center spot, don't just guess and drill it. You
don't want to experiment by drilling holes. I would go with it
down the center. I have never wished it was drilled off center.

Make sure the ball for the endpin is the soft rubber
version. He also had a hard rubber version which slides on
many surfaces. It drove me crazy.
dp

[Maaaven]

If the goal is get a certain amount of tilt to the neck and or
body of the bass, you need to have an offset between the
center of gravity of the bass and spot where the pin touches
the floor.

I cannot see how 44 degrees, or any other value would be
perfect for everyone. If I play two basses, and one is small
and the other larger, I have different length pins. The one
with the shorter pin (big bass) needs more angle, and the
longer pin (small bass) needs a more shallow angle.

What happens if I drill my end block and then want to sell
to someone who is much shorter?

[JoeyNaeger]

When playing, my bass is at a fair angle and the endpin is not to far off from being verticle. A shorter endpin wouldn't have much effect on the center of gravity in relation to where the endpin touches the ground provided the new player holds it at a similiar angle. I see your point but the difference is small enough that I doubt it matters to much.

[.matthew e wengerd.]

MAX MAVEN: MAGICIAN -

My thoughts are similar re: the advantages of a bent endpin versus the Laborie. The bass/floor contact point as it relates to the bass' center of gravity seems far more important to me than the 44 degree angle. With the bent pin and the Laborie at the same angle, the bass/floor contact is in different locations for the same bass, yeilding different results in my opinion.



Few responses have answered my OP, so I went ahead and had the pin installed perpendicular to the back of the bass, as that is the only type of install my luthier had done. This luthier was new to me and he took quite a bit of time to do it (and took a small chip out of the rib, which he glued in place but the mark's still there), but I am thus far pleased with the results. Balance is not a major issue. I figure just a couple hours and it will be completely under control. Meanwhile, the transition from lower positions into TP has become second nature, the bass is more resonant to my ears (probably a result of the less vertical angle of the bass almost exclusively) and the bass feels much less heavy to my left hand.

I am very pleased with the result.

[Maaaven]

I am glad it is working for you.

It seems like we adapt to whatever we have in front of us.
I have played around with different setting on my egg and
will continue to do so. I might even learn something...

Mangle

[.matthew e wengerd.]

[Jake]

How's it working? Do you like it?

[.matthew e wengerd.]

I absolutely love it!!! It had reduced left hand fatigue tremendously and there was next to no adjustment needed for the balance.

[robobass]

Wow! that Laborie installation is rather radical. I have my endpins angled not straight back, but slightly sideways, toward me. My ideal is to have the pin basically verticle relative to the floor when the bass is in playing position, which for me means tilted back and a little to the side. I usually stand when I play jazz, and sit for classical, so I've got two playing positions. The angle of my peg is not that much, maybe 10°, and I usually have it extended only 4", but I find the slight angle still makes a difference. I try not to have any weight on my thumb at all, and support the bass with my belly and left knee. The angle means less weight on my body, and reduces the skating tendency. For taller players who extend more endpin, I sometimes observe a bouncing effect then the pin touches the floor far in front of the bass. That can't be good. As for extreme angles where the pin touches the floor far behing the bass, I find the balance very strange, and I wonder if that might also present some unhealthy mechanical issues. I say: bend those endpins, but in moderation!
Robobass

[goodgig]

Here's my first post, so lucky you!

I play a German flatback and have become somewhat of a Rabbath groupie over the past 6 months. I too bought an end pin from George Vance. I wanted to try out the concept of an angled endpin before giving my bass a labotomy and installing a Laborie endpin. I'm about 5' 11". While I tried to convince myself that it improved things for me (i.e., ease of playing, improved tone) I felt that my thumb was taking too much weight for what is supposed to happen. Also, my bass felt wobbley and I was unable to hold the bass facing forward as seen in "The Art of the Bow". A few events occured that have drastically improved things.

1. I hacked about 2 inches off the bottom (bent) part of the endpin. Results: Helped wobble somewhat.
2. I guess the endpin thumb screw was loose and the Vance endpin shifted position by itself (an owl hoots, a door slams shut . . . ) about 4" away from center and away from me, toward the g side of the bass. It was still behind the scrimage line (closer to the back of the bass than where the conventional endpin would be) but not extending behind the back of the bass. Results: Greatly improved balance and, acording to my musician wife, the sound is much more resonant! I sure feel more vibration in the bass and hear a far better tone. I finally feel that weight thing in my bow arm.

Concluding Thoughts: The balance point for my bass is not the same as Rabbath's bass and maybe not yours either. "Straight back" might not ness. be the best angle for the endpin. Using the Eggpin might be a good way of finding the sweet spot for your own needs. Then consider installing Laborie pin at an angle that hits the floor at the same place as the Egg. For me, I'll stick with Vance's endpin until it tell's me something different (A wolf howls . . . well, that's a topic for a different thread.)