Question for New Standard Owners

PatrickC · #1 02-15-2007, 09:01 PM

I recently purchased a LaScala plywood.

The tailpiece it came with is a Wittner lightweight composite polymer. I'm not crazy about this purely for aesthetic reasons. I guess I'm just used to seeing wood down there.

Will assured me that they used this tailpiece because they got the best response with it. He also kindly offered to replace it with an ebony or rosewood tailpiece if I so wished. (Good guys, Arnold and Will.

)

I'm wondering if any New Standard ply owners have tried using a wood tailpiece and, if so, how did this affect the sound?

Thanks,
Patrick

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #2 02-15-2007, 10:30 PM

I never noticed what mine is made of. It sounds fine.

Uncletoad · #3 02-15-2007, 10:58 PM

If it ain't broke...

JeffKissell · #4 02-16-2007, 12:37 AM

I think mine is boxwood. It's wood, it's dark, but I don't think it's ebony. It sure sounds great though!
-J

mchildree · #5 02-17-2007, 05:50 AM

Wouldn't touch mine. I did a short session with a keys guy (Clarence Bell) that played and toured with Stevie Wonder during the "Innervisions" period last weekend. Like Stevie he's blind, and when they punched up the mic on my Cleveland, Clarence got a huge smile on his face and just said..."oh hell yeah".....

Would you change anything on that??

PatrickC · #6 02-17-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

If it ain't broke...

I don't see it as a case of broke or fixed, but as possibly slightly better, possibly slightly worse, possibly no noticeable change. I've got nice basses and nice gear but that doesn't necessarily mean I should drop all thoughts of upgrading/improving them.

And it would be at no cost to me, unlike, for instance, spending hundreds of dollars trying out different varieties of strings...

Randy Ward · #7 02-17-2007, 09:38 AM

I am with mchildree, on this.
(BTW I used to work with Clarence Bell in San Diego, please say hi to him for me mchildree!)

Recently the local heavy 'classical' guy came to a jazz gig I was doing after he finished a concert. He came up and was checking out my Cleveland, saw the tailpiece and said. "Oh you have one of those. Maybe that is why the bass is so even. I think I am going to order one".

I talked to Arnold about it when I ordered the bass. (like PatrickC I was also thinking about the aesthetics of wood) and Arnold was pretty enthusiastic about the Wittner tailpiece. And said he'd put anything on for me but this composite thing was the way to go, because of the light weight.

PatrickC,
If you do decide to put a wood tailpiece on, please on post your findings here on any sonic differences you find.

Interesting side note: The classical guy thought the Cleveland was an old bass that had been refinished and maybe had a new neck. This was after playing it for half a set! He also didn't think it was a laminate and was really surprised when I told him. Then I told him the vintage was 2006 and what I paid for it I thought he was gonna choke.

PatrickC · #8 02-17-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

Recently the local heavy 'classical' guy came to a jazz gig I was doing after he finished a concert. He came up and was checking out my Cleveland, saw the tailpiece and said. "Oh you have one of those. Maybe that is why the bass is so even. I think I am going to order one".

I had never seen a tailpiece made of anything but wood and was admittedly a little surprised when I first noticed it. My problem with it is purely aesthetic, so I'll likely leave it, unless I hear from someone who has compared it with wood and prefers the latter or finds them equal.

Thanks all for your comments and Randy, if I do decide to switch it out, I'll certainly post my findings here.

Alex Scott · #9 02-17-2007, 12:17 PM

I upgraded my tailpiece on a pretty nice older instrument to a wittner tailpiece.

The bass seemed to improve quite a bit from an ebony tailpiece I previously had on it.

I wouldn't touch it.

Marcus Johnson · #10 02-17-2007, 12:28 PM

As a La Scala owner, I tend to listen to what Arnold and Wil say pretty closely. Other than the shade of the varnish, I went with their recommendations, and wound up with a truly great bass. It seems they've learned a thing or two in their combined 250 years in the business.

PatrickC · #11 02-17-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

The bass seemed to improve quite a bit from an ebony tailpiece I previously had on it.

Interesting. Could you give more details, Alex? Volume, tonal qualities, pizz, arco...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

As a La Scala owner, I tend to listen to what Arnold and Wil say pretty closely. Other than the shade of the varnish, I went with their recommendations, and wound up with a truly great bass.

Yeah, Marcus, I hear you. Arnold and Will obviously know their stuff. Still, it's always good to hear as many opinions as possible. When it comes to the bass, there's much that isn't cut and dry, but more a matter of personal taste.

Alex Scott · #12 02-17-2007, 01:07 PM

response, resonance,

I play with pretty light strings, corelli's

arco stuff like bach and jazz.

I was thinking about getting some weight off the bass, and just felt that it was kind of sluggish before.

JoeyNaeger · #13 02-18-2007, 10:11 AM

FWIW my bass felt much more even and responsive when I replaced the carbon fiber tailpiece with a pecanic ebony tailpice. I'm also an arco player though and I get the impression that lighter ones are probably better for pizz players.

Alex Scott · #14 02-18-2007, 11:20 AM

I want to add that I am not playing heavy orchestral stuff, and I think I might want a heavier tailpiece for that.

Joel Wanek · #15 04-11-2007, 09:54 PM

I actually had a dramatic reaction when recently receiving my NAS Cleveland. I noticed the tailpiece and thought it was cheap plastic of some sort. I emailed Wil & Arnold and they told me that it was a composite tailpiece (can't anything mixed together be considered 'composite'?), that it improved the resonance, etc. So, I calmed down a bit. However, I am going to replace it and put on the ebony tailpiece they sent me. I figure that basses have been around for several hundred years without composite tailpieces, so mine should be just fine without it too. I'm wondering, if they do improve the resonance of a bass, why aren't they put on the high end instruments? Also, I wondered why their site doesn't list the fact that this tailpiece comes on their basses? They list every other spec. Now I have to pay a luthier to put on the ebony tailpiece that I expected to be on there in the first place.

Marcus Johnson · #16 04-11-2007, 10:08 PM

You find yourself in a unique position to judge for yourself which is "better" on this particular bass. Of course that is something that only you can decide, based on what you hear when you play the instrument. I do know that Arnold and Wil spend a lot of time researching what might be the best combination of materials for any given bass. One of the unique problems that they deal with is that they often have to make a best guess as to what any given customer wants, since they sell instruments to people sight unseen on a regular basis. This was the case with me, and I've been really satisfied with the results. I'd be interested to hear what your impressions are after you've switched to the ebony tailpiece.

The other thing is, in spite of Arnold and Wil's knowledge and respect for the grand tradition of bass luthiery, they are clearly looking towards any modern developments that may help to enhance the individual bass' performance for the contemporary performer. One need only have a look at at Arnold's Ergonomic bass to see an example of that!

I love ebony tailpieces, too, though I don't have one on my La Scala. The bottom line for me would be, if it sounds better with my eyes closed, far be it from me to second guess how it sounds with my eyes open.

Jeff Guevin · #17 04-11-2007, 10:38 PM

Well said, Marcus.

Joel, I have a composite tailpiece (I understand it's graphite or something), and I've been told, both by those who had an interest and those who didn't, that with tailpieces, lighter is better. A heavier tailpiece is basically a weight that dampens string vibrations. (There are some threads discussing this on TB.) And that's why some have done successful experiments removing the tailpiece altogether, I believe attaching the strings to cables anchored at the endpin socket.

I would love to have one of those pretty Pecanic tailpieces, personally, but I'd hate to have it make my tone worse or bass quieter. If I do it, it'll probably be for the "compensated" shape so I can get the silk on my Dominant A safely off the tuner shank.

JazzCat_88 · #18 04-11-2007, 11:56 PM

I have a metal tailpiece on my bass. It is solid steel and painted black. I have the Velvet tailpiece wire strung to it. The taipliece wire from Velvet was an upgrade and now the bass sounds better. My luthier recommended the composite tailpiece but I was short of cash. Anyway with the new tailpiece wire form Velvet the bass sounds much better as the tailpiece can vibrate more.

Joel Wanek · #19 04-12-2007, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the replies. I actually don't have a problem with the composite tailpieces - my bass sounds lovely. I just wish their website would state the fact that they use the composite tailpieces, along with all the other specs of the instrument that they do list. That way I would have known to ask for the ebony.

Speaking of resonance, can an instrument resonate too much? If so, what would that sound like and what would its effects be on the bass?

arnoldschnitzer · #20 04-12-2007, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Wanek

I'm wondering, if they do improve the resonance of a bass, why aren't they put on the high end instruments?

As a matter of fact, many professional cellists have been switching to this type of tailpiece for years. They feel it frees up the instrument a bit. On bass, I find that the light composite tailpiece is best for pizzicato playing, but prefer a heavier tailpiece on a bass that is used primarily arco. Keep in mind the differences are extremely subtle.