Rabbath Method for Stringing Bass

[William Hoffman]

Does anyone have any experience with this?

http://www.slavapub.net/Strings-Rabb..._the_bass.html

[crowsmengegus]

Looks like it would slightly increase the downward pressure on the top because of the increased angle. Some basses might like that, others might not.... Sorry, I've never tried it so I can only speculate.

EDIT: it was pointed out that this is not correct, the break angle doesn't change.

[JtheJazzMan]

I did it, its worth a try. I found the tonal difference to be as much as raising your adjusters slightly ie not much.

[PaulCannon]

It has a similar effect as stringing your bass "balls out." Generally sounds louder at first, though I have a feeling the bass readjusts and returns to normal pretty quickly.

This is also how Genßler strings are intended to be strung, supposedly to decrease string tension.

[Violen]

Paul, i think that one of the considerations for this technique is string contact with the tailpiece.

Sound is always subjective, from instrument to instrument, Player to player, and string set to string set, but heres the angle im thinking about:

Electric Basses sometimes are drilled so the strings can pass all the way through the body to get more contact. People claim this can deepen the sound and decrease tension.

At the very least we can of course agree it creates more contact area of the bass with the body. We also can agree that without a "Bridge" per se, this is still a different technique than using the "rabbath stringing technique" on upright.

Im gonna give it a shot and tell you guys what i think, i have played the same bass and strings for five years. If the difference seems noticible i'll post, if i feel its "gone back" in a few weeks i'll update.


Of course mileage may vary, but what do you think about the idea of the extra string contact with the tailpiece?


What if we had a tailpiece that took the strings at a lower spot, through "Tubes" (Get what im saying?)

an extrapolation on this idea. Would it affect the sound?

[mje]

It occurs to me that the angle wouldn't change at all, as the string is going to trace a line that intersects the saddled no matter how you attach it. The tailpiece will be displaced up or down so that the string will trace that line.

[MDEbass]

Sounded good when I strung my Corellis like this. I tried stringing my Belcantos balls out, and my bass didn't adjust too well - I had three open seams within two weeks, followed by unidentifiable rattling noises inside the bass. I then switched back to stringing it normally and it immediately was all better.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by mje

It occurs to me that the angle wouldn't change at all, as the string is going to trace a line that intersects the saddled no matter how you attach it. The tailpiece will be displaced up or down so that the string will trace that line.

+1. The only change will be a slight shortening of afterlength. I can see a potential effect if you did only the E-string like this, for example, but doing them all should just put you back where you started.
Didn't we already have this discussion already very recently?

[PaulCannon]

Originally Posted by robobass

+1. The only change will be a slight shortening of afterlength. I can see a potential effect if you did only the E-string like this, for example, but doing them all should just put you back where you started.
Didn't we already have this discussion already very recently?

You also lose a positive stop point, the tailpiece fret.

When I had my bass strung "balls out," I broke my tailpiece fret while working on Druckman's Valentine. When I switched the strings back around, they sounded a bit dead. At the time I assumed it was just the change in how the bass was strung. A few months later, when I had a job at a violin shop, we made a new fret for the tailpiece.

The difference was remarkable. The bass was far louder and more responsive. I realize it's anecdotal, but for me this demonstrates the necessity of a positive stop point at the tailpiece. At least on my bass.

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

You also lose a positive stop point, the tailpiece fret.

When I had my bass strung "balls out," I broke my tailpiece fret while working on Druckman's Valentine. When I switched the strings back around, they sounded a bit dead. At the time I assumed it was just the change in how the bass was strung. A few months later, when I had a job at a violin shop, we made a new fret for the tailpiece.

The difference was remarkable. The bass was far louder and more responsive. I realize it's anecdotal, but for me this demonstrates the necessity of a positive stop point at the tailpiece. At least on my bass.

Paul, it seems to me you have a stop point both with a fret on the TP and without a fret. The point where the string is held fast (by a hole, by a fret, or as in the Rabbath "method", by the ball or even by the synthethic cord used instead of a ball in some strings like Velvet Animas) and heads north towards the bridge. I haven't had frets on my TPs since they broke under tension and haven't really missed them. Mike Pecanic, who made that TP, says frets are unnecessary and he stopped making them....

Originally Posted by Violen

...Im gonna give it a shot and tell you guys what i think, i have played the same bass and strings for five years. If the difference seems noticible i'll post, if i feel its "gone back" in a few weeks i'll update...

Violen, are you going to try out the Rabbath method? I'd be interested to hear how that works for you...

[Violen]

Yep, will string it up later today.

I will give a full disclosure of my setup and findings

[William Hoffman]

As I see it, the "traditional" method of stringing involves two pressure points: one on the underside of the TP (where the ball is pressed against the TP) and a second one on the other side of the TP (on a fret or on the surface of the fretless TP). The only difference with the "Rabbath method" is that there is only one pressure point on the TP: the upper inside edge of the string hole. as I read it, the "Rabbath method" is suggesting that two pressure points have a dampening effect, and that a single pressure point leaves the TP relatively freer to resonate. No different than Velvet Animas or using the loop in Gamut guts in the same way. But not every kind of string will work.

[JtheJazzMan]

Not buying the physics of that....

[Violen]

My strings dont have hollow balls so i cant try the Rabbath method.


But i did make some observations

IF, we call the string/tailpiece connection a positive angle, The strings coming thruogh the top and thus in relation to the angle of the bass, the TP is at a lesser angle,

Then if we went "balls out" the tailpiece would be at a greater angle than the strings in relation to the body and have more contact with the TP.

Now if you used the Rabbath method; they would have the most contact with the TP and a slightly different angle than the balls out method, bringing the tail piece more "in line" with the direction of the strings.

I want to order some EP Weichs, does anyone know if they have hollow balls so i can try this method?


Thanks again. Im gonna talk to a physicist about this later today.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Violen

Thanks again. Im gonna talk to a physicist about this later today.

Maybe a psychiatrist would be a better call... The EP's have holes.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Violen

My strings dont have hollow balls so i cant try the Rabbath method.

I want to order some EP Weichs, does anyone know if they have hollow balls so i can try this method?

Try a 3/16" drill bit! No need to thank me, I'm here to serve...

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Try a 3/16" drill bit! No need to thank me, I'm here to serve...

Nobody is touching my balls with a drill bit.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by Violen

IF, we call the string/tailpiece connection a positive angle, The strings coming thruogh the top and thus in relation to the angle of the bass, the TP is at a lesser angle,

Then if we went "balls out" the tailpiece would be at a greater angle than the strings in relation to the body and have more contact with the TP....

??? Either: 1. This isn't very clear, 2. It doesn't make any sense, or 3. I'm too dumb to understand. Whichever, how is it that the angle of the tailpiece is going to affect anything?

[Violen]

It will affect the angle the strings go over the bridge. Because of the "Weight" and "pull" of the Tailpiece it will affect the strings.

How? I am not sure, and of course mileage may vary. Guess i can't find out.


What strings are on the picture in the OP. Can anyone identify them?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Nobody is touching my balls with a drill bit.

My balls were drilled after my second child was born.

I've tried stringing balls out, bit it dint do much. Time in the practice room would be better spent. Just my opinion.