Red Circle Clamps?

Cody Sisk · #1 02-02-2009, 05:52 PM

I was checking out the pictures at the Upton website and saw those nifty red, circular crack clamps. Anyone know where I can find those?

Jake deVilliers · #2 02-02-2009, 06:57 PM

You could probably make them with 4" ABS pipe, 6" carriage bolts and wing nuts.

Cody Sisk · #3 02-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

You could probably make them with 4" ABS pipe, 6" carriage bolts and wing nuts.

I was thinking the same. I was just curious if those were something special or if these guys just made them and put pretty red paint on them..

1st Bass · #4 02-02-2009, 07:47 PM

They originated with Oded Kishony, and were labeled Calamari clamps, but they are PVC slices, and were originally used with just the spring of the plastic.. the screw adds that extra squeeze. Pretty easy to make.

Cody Sisk · #5 02-02-2009, 08:12 PM

Awesome, thx for the info, I'm heading to the "big orange box" tomorrow..

JKoehler · #6 02-02-2009, 11:02 PM

After seeing these clamps used at Upton, I made a bunch of my own from 4" PVC pipe and 5/16" x 18 threaded rods. They work great not only for basses, but for the smaller string instruments. The idea is it clamps right at the crack without the possibility of buckling the top/back with a big bar clamp.

Cody Sisk · #7 02-03-2009, 06:11 AM

What's a good glue to use for the clamping blocks for easy removal? I'm thinking white glue such as Elmer's.

ArenW · #8 02-03-2009, 08:24 AM

Thin hide glue.

CPike · #9 02-03-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

What's a good glue to use for the clamping blocks for easy removal? I'm thinking white glue such as Elmer's.

Gasp!

**Matthew Tucker** · #10 02-03-2009, 01:15 PM

I suppose it doesn't matter that much, as to remove the blocks you chisel them off carefully and scrape down to the wood. At least, that's what I do. But hide glue just washes off with water. So I use hide glue, cos less scraping needed!

Cody Sisk · #11 02-03-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPike

Gasp!

The glue only needs to last a few hours, not 50 years! I'm a former student of yours Mr. Pike..

Cody Sisk · #12 02-03-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I suppose it doesn't matter that much, as to remove the blocks you chisel them off carefully and scrape down to the wood. At least, that's what I do. But hide glue just washes off with water. So I use hide glue, cos less scraping needed!

Ya that way takes patience which I sometimes lack!

I am afraid that the white glue might not give way as much and take some of the top wood with it during removal. I'll go with your method and thin out some hide glue for it.

I'm eager to try these clamps. I haven't ever really been happy with using herdim clamps and bar clamps alone because I don't feel that the clamping pressure is equal through out the length of the crack. Nor can I adjust pressure on certain parts of the crack that might need more pressure to fit back together than other parts..

dchan · #13 02-03-2009, 03:27 PM

^ True, but hide glue washes off easily with water. White glue only softens under water, so it's more difficult to remove completely.

Eric Rene Roy · #14 02-03-2009, 06:26 PM

What the picture doesn't show is that you need to insert some wedges at the top of the wooden pieces you glue down after you get the clamp tight. Without the wedge you will get a tight fit to the crack that is perfect on the inside but open on the outside (where your customer will see!). The wedge evens out the crack so the outside looks as good as the inside. don't miss this step.

Yes, the clamps were inspired by Oded, from his writings on a private list for violin makers I follow, and I thought naming them calamari would be a tip of the hat to him and his idea...but he did write to me asking to be credited by name. I obliged on one of the pop up texts but I found out after wards he expected to be named on every picture. Hogwash...what an egotistical thing to ask for IMHO.

Cody Sisk · #15 02-03-2009, 06:30 PM

Thanks Eric! The wedge goes between the blocks and you "shimmy" it until the crack is alligned? Leave it there while the glue dries? Do you still reinforce with a herdim or bar clamp?

basswraith · #16 02-03-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

What's a good glue to use for the clamping blocks for easy removal? I'm thinking white glue such as Elmer's.

I assume your joking..but just in case if you were not...

How does a Vice President of a string shop post here publicly displaying their business name and web site and ask the bass community if Elmer's white glue is ok to use in bass repair?
If you haven't noticed the standards of bass repair in the last 5 years have gone up quite a bit. White glue has no place in serious string repair if you really care about whats going on.
Save the Elmer's for the arts and crafts.

Cody Sisk · #17 02-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basswraith

I assume your joking..but just in case if you were not...

How does a Vice President of a string shop post here publicly displaying their business name and web site and ask the bass community if Elmer's white glue is ok to use in bass repair?
If you haven't noticed the standards of bass repair in the last 5 years have gone up quite a bit. White glue has no place in serious string repair if you really care about whats going on.
Save the Elmer's for the arts and crafts.

How about continuing down the thread and reading my posts as I learn more instead of flaming my thread.

For any other elitist "purists" who wish to flame my thread I'll further explain myself. My reasons for suggesting white glue was because the application of the blocks for the clamps is TEMPORARY. The white glue would not be used for a permanent fix. Due to the strength of hide glue, I was trying to think of alternatives so that my temporary blocks did not become permanent members of the instrument.

Though I am the vice president of my company, I acknowledge that I have a lot to learn about repair as I'm still fairly new to it. (Two years apprenticeship) Hence the reason I'm here reading and asking questions.

**Matthew Tucker** · #18 02-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Go easy ... he's not talking about using Elmers for the repair, just for the temporary "towers' used for clamping! But when you have such a good glue as hide on your bench, there's really no need to reach for anything else.

I've used white glue for labels, CA for knotfilling, Rubber cement for bumpers, epoxy for CF. There's a need and a purpose for each.

Cody Sisk · #19 02-03-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Go easy ... he's not talking about using Elmers for the repair, just for the temporary "towers' used for clamping! But when you have such a good glue as hide on your bench, there's really no need to reach for anything else.

I've used white glue for labels, CA for knotfilling, Rubber cement for bumpers, epoxy for CF. There's a need and a purpose for each.

Hmm, rubber cement for bumpers? Does this eliminate the step of removing varnish so that you can get a good glue joint?

kurt ratering · #20 02-04-2009, 05:09 AM

i dont know how familiar we all are with the big wigs of the violin resto world, but Hans Nebel (ran the wurlitzer shop in nyc with sacconi i believe) advocates the use of white glue for glueing cleats. i guess the logic is that it lets the wood move while maintaining a good joint and can always be removed with vinegar. any thoughts?