Reset, Replace, or Plane?

PaiMei · #1 03-06-2007, 10:53 PM

I just bought this Kay ('67 S-1) and the only flaw it has is a bow in the neck. I've talked with a few people and have received a few different answers on how to remedy the neck. I understand that a lot of Kays suffer "the bends" and a neck reset is a common solution. I've also read that replacing fingerboard would do the trick. And, finally, my luthier suggested merely planing the fingerboard and sanding the bridge down to accomodate it. Can you really plane out a curve like this fingerboard/neck has?

You can see the bow in neck in the second pic. And in the third pic I'm holding the string down at the bottom of the fingerboard leaving a pretty healthy gap between there and the nut. Seriously, I'm trying to put on a happy face and enjoy it but it's wearing me out to play anything at all! What would you guys suggest?

bluegrasscat · #2 03-07-2007, 12:41 AM

the fingerboard should have some scoop in it! yes you can have the fingerboard shaved down, It seems like it would be alot cheaper than new a fingerboard and the (Labor to install)!! plus if you plane it down a lil, youll be able to see if the feel is good for you! my KAY has a good scoop but i also dont play jazz, so i dont mind the higher string! but that is me

Martin Sheridan · #3 03-07-2007, 09:20 AM

Your luthier is right. If I see the picture correctly there is plenty of wood there and it should be no problem to remedy.
I don't know who does basses in San Diego these days. Ask some of the symphony or jazz guys, they should know.

Steve Swan · #4 03-07-2007, 10:25 AM

Hammond Ashley should be able to perform the work.

bluegrasscat · #5 03-07-2007, 10:44 AM

sorry PAIMEI... i went to take out a quote from your post and it didnt work right. so i think Martin and Steve thought it was my post! unless you do happen to live in san diego! hehe. i havent figured out this inserting quote thing yet..I think i have fixed my mistake.

Martin Sheridan · #6 03-07-2007, 08:51 PM

I don't know who the bass guy is in "over your left shoulder" either. But someone will know.

mojoluthier · #7 03-08-2007, 11:35 AM

The problem with planing the fingerboard is that it is probabgly Maple or Walnut, which already isn't strong enough to resist the tension of the strings, and planing it will further weaken it which takes away more of it's strength which causes it to bend. . . etc. It can be improved through judicious guesswork and good craftsmanship, but not quite resolved. The two fixes I like best for this dilema are: best is to replace the fingerboard with the Ebony that it really shouild be, but that will cost about $600 to $1k. The other thing that works is to remove the fingerboard, backbend the neck slightly, and glue it back on, then planing it true. This is a crapshoot because of the "English" involved in getting it right, but a competent tech will get it pretty close for perhaps $400. Ebony is never a mistake as it turns a Kay into a serious music tool.

Heifetzbass · #8 03-08-2007, 11:59 AM

I've often wondered if an old Kay, or any bass with a thin neck would benefit from a carbon fiber insert in the neck. Would that provide the stability?

I agree that Ebony would make a great deal of difference, but in lieu of that would the CF do the trick?
Brian

Jake deVilliers · #9 03-08-2007, 08:02 PM

You got it Heifetz.

A 1/4" x 1/2" x 18" CF reinforcement is standard in my shop for fixing Kays' (and others) weak necks. The added stiffness also seems to add to the treble component of the sound.

Martin Sheridan · #10 03-08-2007, 08:19 PM

Jeez. Plane the neck first before spending all that dough. I've done hundreds of them.
Then again, if you have an extra 750-a grand to put into a and ebony fingerboard, plus maybe straigthening the neck, plus a carbon fiber insert why not trade in the bass and upgrade?

mojoluthier · #11 03-08-2007, 08:46 PM

Some people think Kay Basses are "What", Martin. I've got one here, a '38, with an Ebony board on it and it plays just like downtown. As soon as I encounter the right person they'll fall all over themselves for it. For them it's the best bass in the room. I got it in an upgrade trade, of course.

Dbass926 · #12 03-08-2007, 09:15 PM

Another possibility that I can put forward is that your arching is falling on the top of your bass. The pictures you posted are not very helpful in diagnosing this, but...basically when humidity drops, the arching (curves that give your top a "belly") can sink, and this can bring your bridge down, making the strings hit the board. Also, humidity can cause the fingerboard to migrate up. Try a couple well-soaked dampits for a few days before you hack up your fingerboard.

PaiMei · #13 03-08-2007, 09:23 PM

Thanks for your input, guys. You seem to validate what my luthier was suggesting. I don't think it will hurt to give planing a shot here, even if a more permanent solution is inevitable down the road. I'll have $3K wrapped up in this bass and, frankly, that's enough for now.

PaiMei · #14 03-08-2007, 09:42 PM

Dbass, the strings aren't hitting the fingerboard. Well, they are in the third pic because I'm holding them down to show the gap between string contact at the bottom of the fingerboard and the top. I'd say there's a good half inch space between the strings and the fb. The bridge will have to be brought down considerably after planing, I guess.

Basically, what happened was this bass spent its life in storage but the strings were left tensioned (or they were when I found it). Slowly during the last forty years the scroll has been making its way around to the tailpiece.

bluegrasscat · #15 03-08-2007, 10:45 PM

hey PaiMei. dude or dudete, the rosewood fingerboard will plane like butter. (Simple Cheaper and it will turn out JustFine!) g-luck