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11-11-2009, 05:45 PM
| | | | scroll/headshock mass
is there a way to increase the mass of the scroll / headstock? i know this is a factor in designing a bass guitar in order to help minimize dead spots on the neck etc, and from what i can remember, thats the function of the scroll too. so, i have a bass that otherwise i love, but it gets weak in certain areas of the neck. not wolfs, not setup issues or string issues. ive dealt with this on this bass for years and it is set up very well and has been on the benches of good luthiers over the years. so, before i throw it in the ocean i was thinking id try to alter the scroll mass to see if it gets me anywhere. are there any known / accepted ways of doing this?
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11-11-2009, 09:28 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Forest Grove, OR | | | How much mass are you hoping to add?
You can experiment by adding modelling clay stuck on the scroll, but I seriously doubt that the results will be very satisfying.
If I am wrong, and it works like a charm, you could weigh the clay, then add that amount in lead, glued up inside the pegbox.
I really suspect that there is some other problem, though. Hopefully one of the resident experts will speak up...my opinion is that of a neophyte, compared to theirs. |
11-11-2009, 09:55 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada | | Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st Bass  If I am wrong, and it works like a charm, you could weigh the clay, then add that amount in lead, glued up inside the pegbox. | "lead" ? Isn't that dangerous because of the poisoning risk? Iron would be safer right? |
11-11-2009, 10:29 PM
| | | | im thinking of looking for some kind of heavy brass clamp to clamp on there to see what it does, any other ideas?
i think it should definately do something to the sound, that's the function of the scroll after all. ive seen brass plates for sale that you're supposed to stick to the headstock of fender basses because the ones from the 70's were notorious for dead spots on the neck, and changing the mass helped the problem. |
11-11-2009, 10:30 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City area | | I'm no expert on this, but there may be something to this: http://www.schleske.de/en/our-resear...acoustics.html
Bob Branstetter wrote an article about this and it has been a point of controversy here in the past. It concerns AO BO matching; essentially matching the resonant frequency of the bass body to that of of the fingerboard/neck. Theoretically, when this is done the entire instrument will vibrate as a unit with no wolfiness or uneven notes. That is your concern, right?
I could send the article to you if you wish.
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11-11-2009, 10:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Forest Grove, OR | | Quote:
Originally Posted by longfinger "lead" ? Isn't that dangerous because of the poisoning risk? Iron would be safer right? | Metallic lead is pretty stable stuff...I wasn't suggesting that he eat it, but rather that he glue it in an out-of-the-way place inside the pegbox. Lead is more than 50% denser than iron, and far more stable...no rust stains, no reaction with tannins, etc.
Gold, on the other hand, is even more stable, and denser still, at nearly 250% the density of Iron. Wanna glue a few Krugerrands in there? Go right ahead...
I have no hesitation about using lead. We use far more dangerous substances every day, and think nothing of it, but panic at the mention of lead.
Most metals, especially the chemical salts thereof, are poisonous in excessive quantity. Lead, in most forms, is more toxic than some other common metals. In metallic form, it is fairly benign. Men (and animals) have lived fairly long lives with a lead slug in their body.
Ah, well...
Use what you want... |
11-11-2009, 11:37 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | |  Mass city.
Here's some mass for ya.......my bass, cast iron plates with solid brass. Neck/scroll carved out of two pices of ebony sandwiched between three pieces of curly maple. Mother of pearl inlaid into the scroll tips. (Five string (low B) Joseph Bohmann... C 1888).
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Last edited by Paul Warburton : 01-14-2010 at 08:45 AM.
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11-12-2009, 01:00 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Roseburg, Oregon, US | | | That is a gorgeous scroll. Do you have pictures of the neck and the scroll from other angles? |
11-12-2009, 01:51 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Warburton Here's some mass for ya.......my bass, cast iron plates with solid brass. Neck/scroll carved out of two pices of ebony sandwiched between three pieces of curly maple. Mother of pearl inlaid into the scroll tips. ( | Hoooooh, my first thought after having seen this was "Liberace". I have to admit, itīs very beautiful in its own way...
Best
Sidecar |
11-12-2009, 01:52 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Syracuse N.Y. | | | Carbon fiber strips inlayed into the neck, has been reported to eliminate dead spots. You would have to remove the fingerboard to do this procedure, but the results are well worth it.
I am not sure if adding weight would help, might make it worse? |
11-12-2009, 06:56 AM
| | | | dont people usually say that when they add an extension that the whole bass usually opens up? thats one way of adding mass i suppose |
11-12-2009, 07:08 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Denver, Co. | |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flanning That is a gorgeous scroll. Do you have pictures of the neck and the scroll from other angles? | I don't know what to say about the "Liberace" comment, but here. Cursor on my name and then click on the Bohmann five string banner that comes up.......the ebony goes through the entire neck and scroll. http://www.thetalkbasses.com/
You can hear it here... http://www.talkingblues.net/talkinba...ul%20Warburton
Didn't mean to derail the thread.
This bass has a lot of wood in it and it's not the loudest bass in world but it is the most even bass in all registers I've ever played. I doubt that the weight in the scroll/neck has anything to do with that much in terms of sound. There are many threads here where this issue has been discussed.
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Oh, no.....have we gone OT yet again?
"The opportunity was there...but it never presented itself." Phil Urso, 1980. :atoz: |
11-12-2009, 08:04 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: new york area | | | something i tried once. i got heavy brass cabinet door pulls from home depot. then i removed the screw from the tuning shaft/gear and replaced them with these heavy guys. looked like those ebony tuner shaft ends, only shiny metal. for what it's worth i kept them on about 2 days. on my bass the results weren't good. |
11-12-2009, 01:51 PM
| | Inadvertent Microtonalist | | Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, ME | | | Search for something like "A0/B0 matching" or for posts of Bob Branstetter. There are many people who believe that the mass of particular components and the distribution of mass around the double-bass has an enormous and scientifically-predictable effect on tone. Others put less emphasis on it.
The thing about weights in BG headstocks, Steve, dates back to the "Fender-only" era. The basic Fender design -- 4-string, 34"-scale basses with short-tang bolt-on-necks -- has very consistent dead spots at low Ab and at middle C on the G string. People would play around with weights in an effort to shift those dead-notes around.
Happy hunting and good luck.
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11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
| | Registered User
bass luthier, johnson string inst. | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: waltham, mass. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Warburton I don't know what to say about the "Liberace" comment, but here. Cursor on my name and then click on the Bohmann five string banner that comes up.......the ebony goes through the entire neck and scroll. http://www.thetalkbasses.com/
You can hear it here... http://www.talkingblues.net/talkinba...ul%20Warburton
Didn't mean to derail the thread.
This bass has a lot of wood in it and it's not the loudest bass in world but it is the most even bass in all registers I've ever played. I doubt that the weight in the scroll/neck has anything to do with that much in terms of sound. There are many threads here where this issue has been discussed. | holy smokes! i cant believe that ive never bothered to check out the "eye candy" section. beautiful bass paul.
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11-12-2009, 07:38 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Westminster, Maryland | | 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shwashwa is there a way to increase the mass of the scroll / headstock? i know this is a factor in designing a bass guitar in order to help minimize dead spots on the neck etc, and from what i can remember, thats the function of the scroll too. so, i have a bass that otherwise i love, but it gets weak in certain areas of the neck. not wolfs, not setup issues or string issues. ive dealt with this on this bass for years and it is set up very well and has been on the benches of good luthiers over the years. so, before i throw it in the ocean i was thinking id try to alter the scroll mass to see if it gets me anywhere. are there any known / accepted ways of doing this? | I always though mass was a good thing, providing inertia to counteract the moving string and was maybe the reason scrolls exist.
HOWEVER, some experts, Traeger for one, profess that mass at the headstock is NOT a good thing, even suggesting that lighter, individual tuners are superior to the plate style. 
A couple test ideas - find a woodworker that has large C-clamps or such and just load them on. Or how about some modeling clay in a bag stuffed carefully in the peg box?
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11-13-2009, 03:37 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Syracuse N.Y. | | | Check the thickness of your fingerboard, it could be getting thin. A new fingerboard and/or neck reinforcement, could help stiffen the neck and make your bass much more responsive. |
11-13-2009, 04:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malta (Europe) and Britain | | | (slightly) off-topic, but "headshock" would describe Jimi Hendrix' hairstyle in his Afro period, n'est-ce pas?
Seriously, in the guitar world there is a device marketed as a "Fat Finger", which has nothing to do with Hendrix, but which is a small clamp that is fitted to the headstock for precisely the purpose you describe.
I suppose on a double bass you might experiment initially with a small g-cramp on the scroll, suitably felt-padded of course.
Adrian |
11-25-2009, 12:55 AM
| | Registered User
bass luthier, World of Strings | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Long Beach | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ctregan Check the thickness of your fingerboard, it could be getting thin. A new fingerboard and/or neck reinforcement, could help stiffen the neck and make your bass much more responsive. | ctregan is right. |
11-25-2009, 05:16 AM
| | | thanks, but the fingerboard on the bass is super thick. brand new a few years back and picked because it was the thickest we could find Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfixer ctregan is right. | |  | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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