Somewhat OT: traditional woodworking question

toman · #1 08-03-2006, 03:03 PM

This is a little off topic, but it does pertain to luthiery somewhat... I'm wondering what method people used to re-saw thick planks of wood before every shop had a tablesaw and bandsaw in it. Surely there was a way, but I don't know what it is. I'm trying to get away from power tools as much as possible, but this remains a problem. Anybody?

**Damon Rondeau** · #2 08-03-2006, 03:29 PM

People used various kinds of bow saws -- like a length of bandsaw blade fixed between the ends of a "C" or "H"-shaped bow. The metal blade could be tensioned.

These things got big. For large jobs you'd have a pit (or an elevated platform) and a guy on either end of the saw, except a pit saw just had handles on either end -- no bow.

Hard freaking work. It's why bandsaws were invented (probably one of the first machine woodworking tools, come to think of it.) Re-sawing that way necessarily left a very rough surface so once you were done sawing, here comes the planing!

I've thought the kinds of thoughts you're thinking for a long time. I think a bandsaw is one of those desert island machine tools -- you know, if you could only have one machine tool, which would you choose? Lots of folks would go bandsaw.

toman · #3 08-03-2006, 04:49 PM

So basically just some variation on the frame saw then... No way to guide it? Seems to me like I'd have a hard time keeping the thing going in a straight line, or at least straight enough that afterward I wouldn't have to plane off half the wood to get it flat.

WalterBush · #4 08-03-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

So basically just some variation on the frame saw then... No way to guide it? Seems to me like I'd have a hard time keeping the thing going in a straight line, or at least straight enough that afterward I wouldn't have to plane off half the wood to get it flat.

Hand sawing, regardless of type or size, is a matter of practice, like anything else. It took me a while before I could saw a straight line with a frame saw or western style rip saw.
After working with traditional tools for a while, I started to realize why apprenticeships could last for years, and also that your average carpenter must have had muscles that would have put the Governator to shame. I eagerly await the day I have space to put a table saw up again.

**Matthew Tucker** · #5 08-03-2006, 05:18 PM

The wider the blade the less it wanders. The old pit saws had blades 10" wide.

I've seen a large rip saw rigged up using a sprung willow pole to help with the return stroke. Also keeps the blade straight. But you'd need a bit of space for that.

I wonder what the Japanese used in times of yore? They'r usually pretty cluey when it comes to tools. I just struggle with a regulation ripsaw. No bandsaw.

Doug Ring · #6 08-04-2006, 06:00 AM

The Japanese used (use?) saws that cut on the pull rather than the push. It's claimed you get more control.

I don't have direct experience of this, I've only read it in a great book I've got: The Workbench Book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156...lance&n=283155

which is a great read for any woodworker. There's a whole chapter on a Japanese workshop. If I remember rightly, the author had an apprenticeship in one, and spent the first YEAR learning to sharpen blades....

**Matthew Tucker** · #7 08-04-2006, 06:44 AM

I have a Dozuki - small japanese saw with a reinforced spine, .5mm thin blade and close set teeth used on the pull stroke - and it's great, one of my favourite tools. But I've only ever seen small japanese rip saws. I wonder how they cut logs?

**Damon Rondeau** · #8 08-04-2006, 10:00 AM

From the Dick Tools catalogue (they're a German firm that carries a lot of beautiful Japanese woodworking tools):

"Handsaws for large scale work and for ripping logs are called Kobiki Noko Giri, which literally means 'the sawyer's saw'."

I attached a pic from the website.

The blade is about 450mm, or almost 19 inches long. No stiffener on top of the blade, so it can slice through large items. Cuts on the pull stroke. Probably has the Japanese tooth style on the blade, some of which are impossible to sharpen except by highly trained specialists. Curious handle arrangement.

Definitely a one-person tool. No sharing the pain.

Seems kinda small. Probably it's the largest kobiki they can hope to sell. They were asking 112 euros two years ago.

nicklloyd · #9 08-04-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

I'm trying to get away from power tools as much as possible, but this remains a problem. Anybody?

This may be OT for your OT question, but a local millwork in your area might be able to re-saw for you. It's probably well under $100 to resaw some 8/4 lumber into five or six pieces. Just another option to consider.

toman · #10 08-04-2006, 04:32 PM

Yes, obviously I could pay someone else to do the work for me, but for some reason, that seems bogus to me... I have a hard enough time as it is buying pre-milled lumber from a store, let alone having someone else futher work it for me... I suppose I'm suffering from caveman mentality, but I just like to work things through from beginning to end, you know? I like the idea of a person taking a raw tree (or trees) and turning it into something beautiful like an instrument, all by hand without any of the distasteful, corrupt influences that this modern world puts into things. At this point such a thing is beyond my capabilities, but I hope to one day be able to do that.

nicklloyd · #11 08-04-2006, 04:55 PM

Alrighty then.

toman · #12 08-04-2006, 06:06 PM