Sound post emergency

[Jason Sypher]

In Europe, on tour, terrible bass sound from a new soundpost. Thin, over resonant, tons of overtones, hard to control, way too much sustain...

I can move the post, I've done it before. What direction should I go in to get more bass, more fundamental, less crazy overtones and a thicker sound all the way up the neck. It's making our shows a crapshoot. Noone can hear the bass as it gets swallowed by everything else...

Help, next gig in four hours

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

In Europe, on tour, terrible bass sound from a new soundpost. Thin, over resonant, tons of overtones, hard to control, way too much sustain...

I can move the post, I've done it before. What direction should I go in to get more bass, more fundamental, less crazy overtones and a thicker sound all the way up the neck. It's making our shows a crapshoot. Noone can hear the bass as it gets swallowed by everything else...

Help, next gig in four hours

? If the climate there is much different, dryer or more humid most likely, then the Post can be loose.. or tight if dryer. Closer to the bridge and center for brighter and lower and out towards the f hole for deep BUT that depends on how tight the fit is.

Check with Arnold. He is better with this than me. Message him here and my forum, email and pm.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Now, the Post is one of maybe 20 things that could be causing it or several different things. You have an old bass with many many repairs in it. Anything can happen. Open seam, open crack, loose cross bar, swelled wood from climate change, action to low from neck shift, etc etc..

Like with a Doctor, no one can prescribe a cure or treatment without seeing the patient in person 'each time' something is wrong.

See a local Luthier I guess.

[Mark Carlsen]

Well ,I'm guessing when you get home your prized baby may never do a tour like this again. It's tough enough to travel in the Bush era w. a real bass...You will think long and hard and get another axe for future travel whether it be a stick or ply/hybrid type bass. Talk to all the pro players you know in NY and figure what will be your best solution and live w. it... Welcome to the 21st century of road bassist...

[Jason Sypher]

Well, somehow you've twisted the post around a little bit, no pun intended. It's not my bass that is the problem, it's the soundpost that was installed before I left without my consent and without a gig to test it out. The bass has travelled just fine in it's case and I've done this a few times now without real incident. I'd love a good ply for a lot of reasons. But the soundpost on a ply could be just as bad as the soundpost on a Prescott.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

the soundpost that was installed before I left without my consent

That rather begs the question, doesn't it??

[Dr.G]

Are you in the Netherlands with Nikitov?

For bass emergencies: there are very good luthiers in Holland.

Amsterdam: http://www.harryjansenluthier.com/

Arnhem: http://www.contrabassen.nl/

Maastricht: http://www.knooren.nl/

Almere: http://www.wfdb.nl/

Good luck on tour! It would be a shame if a soundpost would mess with your joy to play…

[Mark Carlsen]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Well, somehow you've twisted the post around a little bit, no pun intended. It's not my bass that is the problem, it's the soundpost that was installed before I left without my consent and without a gig to test it out. The bass has travelled just fine in it's case and I've done this a few times now without real incident. I'd love a good ply for a lot of reasons. But the soundpost on a ply could be just as bad as the soundpost on a Prescott.

That's all well and good about your Prescott..I'm guessing it is possible the post moved in transit if not fitted that well, or your Luthier as you stated did a soundpost change without your consent. I am concerned that there will be a time that you may not be so lucky w. a flight w. the Prescott. i know you must have it insured, but seeing many a bass damaged from flights overseas I would never take that gamble. To each his own...

[arnoldschnitzer]

It was my shop that installed the soundpost in Jason's bass. When a bass is literally falling apart, you remove the post, glue everything up, and then set the instrument back up. When the soundpost that was in the bass is nowhere near a good fit, you either re-fit it or change it out. You don't allow a bass to leave with a soundpost in it that can damage the bass. When the client picks up the bass and comments that it "sounds and feels great" you assume all is well.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

If I give my Bass in for repairs and the Post needs replacing, I don't expect to be called up for permission. If the Post needs changing, then I expect he will do the right thing.

[Mark Carlsen]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

It was my shop that installed the soundpost in Jason's bass. When a bass is literally falling apart, you remove the post, glue everything up, and then set the instrument back up. When the soundpost that was in the bass is nowhere near a good fit, you either re-fit it or change it out. You don't allow a bass to leave with a soundpost in it that can damage the bass. When the client picks up the bass and comments that it "sounds and feels great" you assume all is well.

This has happened many a time and I always ask"Is this your only soundpost ? " They say 'YES" and now do you call them to say you need a new soundpost or just try to re-fit the old post. A new one is going to cost so many bucks and in a lot of cases the client may not have a lot of cash. So it's a tough call cuz you want to save on the repair costs ,but the client also should go the extra mile...In this case the client may have needed the extra for the trip...very tough call...

[Jason Sypher]

I think you read into this a little. I think it was correct of Arnold to put in a new soundpost as it is "standard procedure". I did leave the shop saying "it sounds great". It did sound great. I should have bowed it a bit, that's where I really found that it was off. The sound was thin all the way up the neck. Suddenly everything sounded scratchy and horrible. This is not unusual, to take a bass and then return the next day for fine tuning. I can't remember a time that I had a soundpost adjusted where it didn't need some tweaking. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to do that, so I will do that here in Europe. As far as being concerned about the bass. It is fully insured which I recommend for all bass owners nomatter what kind of bass you have. I have a week before my next gig so there is now time to tweak the post and get it right. Arnold did some wonderful "stop-gap" glueing on my old bass. The bass feels more solid.
Normally I wouldn't take my bass to Europe, but since I am here for six months or more and doing some recording, I decided to bring it along.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I think you read into this a little. I think it was correct of Arnold to put in a new soundpost as it is "standard procedure". I did leave the shop saying "it sounds great". It did sound great. I should have bowed it a bit, that's where I really found that it was off. The sound was thin all the way up the neck. Suddenly everything sounded scratchy and horrible. This is not unusual, to take a bass and then return the next day for fine tuning. I can't remember a time that I had a soundpost adjusted where it didn't need some tweaking. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to do that, so I will do that here in Europe. As far as being concerned about the bass. It is fully insured which I recommend for all bass owners nomatter what kind of bass you have. I have a week before my next gig so there is now time to tweak the post and get it right. Arnold did some wonderful "stop-gap" glueing on my old bass. The bass feels more solid.
Normally I wouldn't take my bass to Europe, but since I am here for six months or more and doing some recording, I decided to bring it along.

How do you test a bass after it's been repaired and not Bow it? Also, after everything is glued up tighter than before, the Bass SHOULD be Brighter and with more harmonics and overtones etc.

A bass set-up for mainly Pizz rarely bows deep and smooth unless it's an Orchestra bass with a good pizz sound.

Also, I have never had to go back right after a repair for a soundpost adjustment. The Post should be good for awhile without having to move it unless its after a seasonal change.

Before leaving any shop, test it as much as you can and make sure it's right.

[Jason Sypher]

That's all fine and well if you have the time. I was moving my entire family to Europe the very next day and there was just too much to do. I've had this bass for years now, I know what it is capable of. Another consideration is the complete change in weather and environment. I live on a canal now. The shop found the previous post to be tight but I find the new post very tight as well. When I speak of overtones etc what I mean is that the bass sound, particularly when mic'ed was buried in extraneous noises, finger noise, string noise etc. It just seemed that all the sounds you don't want were magnified and all the sounds you do want were missing. There was no push to the sound at all. It was hollow. It felt as if the bass had no sides or back, just a top. Like there was no body at all. It was deceptive to stand in front of it. It had wood, and tone...but it was lost when even an acoustic guitar was strummed next to it. My guitarist said "it sounds like a completely different instrument". The repairs were mostly glueing the ribs back to the blocks on the bottom and top near the neck, it wasn't as if the whole top was repaired. It was more structural than anything. Arnold described it as "almost falling apart".....extreme, but apt. Remember, this bass had the top completely repaired once and still sounded virtually the same afterwards. The reason why I often return to the shop the following day for some tweaking is that I think people hear basses differently and what might work as a generic setting doesn't always jive with different musical applications. I moved the post ever so slightly and the next gig was better, not great, but better. The bass felt like it was vibrating more and the band could both hear, and FEEL the bass notes. It's still not right and I will take it to a pro in the next few days to get it right. It was a real struggle there and I'm glad it's over. I learned a lot in the last few weeks so I'm not sorry it happened.

[Mark Carlsen]

I'm sure that a little more post tweaking and your bass will settle in to it's new home fine... From what you said about the bass's sound when you first tried it in Europe almost sounds to me like your neck could be loose a tad...It does have a neck block, right ? If that's not the culprit, then the post tweak w. the bow and letting your Yankee bass get used to it's new home/climate may take a few days/weeks. What part of Europe may I ask ? Good luck on your new adventure...

[Jason Sypher]

Well, I solved my sound post dilemma. I took my bass to Harry Jansen's shop in Amsterdam today and he made a new post for the bass. Upon arriving at the shop and playing just a few notes on the bass Harry said "it sounds good but it has no balls, well... we'll give it some balls". He cut a new post and I spent about two hours in the shop talking and playing the other fine instruments while he worked. He hipped me to some solo Wilbert De Joode music and we had a nice cup of tea. By the time I left the shop my bass was playing better than ever. Now I'm excited to play my next gig. Harry expressed a genuine interest in my bass and it felt like he was putting his full effort into making it sound it's best. In the end he said that I could come back if I'm not finding the sound quite right and we'll spend as much time as we need to get it perfect. It was a perfect luthier experience. I highly recommend him if you are in Europe, he is lesser known but certainly very talented and down to earth.

[Eric Hochberg]

So, now I am curious about the new post vs. the old post. My guess is the new post is longer, going from NYC to Europe at this time of year.

[Jake deVilliers]

+1

Glad your bass is back Jason. Can you tell us what Jansen did with the new post? Longer, shorter, thicker, thinner, positioning?

[Dr.G]

Hurray for Harry Jansen!

I bought a hybrid bass from him when I was a student, many years ago. Even though it was not particularly special or expensive he gave the instrument a lot of attention and an excellent setup. It still plays and sounds very good. It’s nice to visit his shop. You get tea, can play on very nice instruments and can ask all sorts of questions about instrument-making. He’s not only a very good craftsman but also has a lot of knowledge and heart for his work.

Is Nikitov also touring to Scandinavia? I’m currently working (I’m a cell biologist) in Sweden and will move to Finland next month. I have the CD Vanderlust on my computer (girlfriend has the original…) and really enjoy it. Many Dutch have discovered Nikitov when the band was on the TV-program “Vrije Geluiden”, which I often check out on the web.
Your style of playing is very inspiring. The saxophone player in the quartet in which I play is Czech and often incorporates eastern European scales/melodies in his playing. He came to Sweden in the 70'ties with a circus band and never returned. Anyway, it’s nice to have some folk-lines/style to add to the jazz, even when I do not always know where it comes from.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Can you tell us what Jansen did with the new post? Longer, shorter, thicker, thinner, positioning?

Jake dude. Family show.


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