A String from Hell

Arojekt · #1 11-13-2007, 02:25 PM

So there's the school-owned bass I use while I'm, of course, at school. I have another one that was given to me to borrow and practice instead of having to shuttle one bass back and forth to and from school every day...

Any-who, the one bass that is at school is a German-style double bass. I can't remember off the top of my head what brand it is, but I'll be sure to get it tomorrow and get back to this topic with that information. I do know, however, that the instrument is pushing 10 years old. Between it's original purchase date and the present time, it has had it's bridge replaced. Fairly recently, about a month ago, the A string was replaced due to wear and it's inability to maintain a standard of tuning for more than 5 minutes.

So we've got this new string. It's nice. I mean, what can you say more about a string? Anyways, it detunes itsself after a good playing session, about 1.5 hours, give or take... and sometimes even faster than that. It's quite a hectic job to mess with it now a days. I don't want to bring my orchestra teacher into this problem because she has more than enough on her hands.

Anyone have any ideas? I've checked the string to make sure it was in taught and everything... it all checks out, but I don't know why this is happening. It looks like a good string, not as though it had been manufactured wrong or anything... arg.... it's so frustrating!

Please, help!

--Arojekt.

jimmyduded · #2 11-13-2007, 02:31 PM

quite a problem you got there, I had the same problem but it only lasted for maybe a week when I got new strings, one of mine were however was loose at the top(could not tell untill i totally unwinded it) it would seem that the little bit of slack it had was throwing it slightly out of tune

**Matthew Tucker** · #3 11-13-2007, 06:32 PM

Maybe the A string was taught incorrectly?

Are the other strings staying in tune? If they are, check the top winding again, as Jimmy suggested, also check that the ball end is properly seated in the tailpiece groove. There are ways to make sure the top winding doesn't slip.

However, if ALL the strings are going out of tune, I think something bad is about to happen. Get the bass looked at, don't play it any more.

drurb · #4 11-13-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arojekt

...the A string was replaced due to wear and it's inability to maintain a standard of tuning for more than 5 minutes.

So we've got this new string. I...Anyways, it detunes itsself after a good playing session, about 1.5 hours, give or take...

Hmm. I see a pattern. Perhaps there is something funky going on with the tuning peg or machine? If it is a standard geared tuner, I can't imagine what might be up but perhaps the tuning peg (the roller around which the string is wound) is somehow turning slightly relative to the gear. Just a thought...

jisbass · #5 11-13-2007, 09:32 PM

new strings keep stretching out till they settle, especially softer strings like obligatos. If it keeps having the problem after a few days, better check all the things that the above posters suggested.

jisbass · #6 11-13-2007, 09:37 PM

missed the part that says it was replaced a month ago!
better look into the other things now...

danbass007 · #7 11-13-2007, 09:41 PM

It might just be normal. New strings need time to stretch before they will hold their tuning really well. 1.5 hours is enough time for a broken in string to go out of tune as well. All the same just let your conductor know and through out whatever possible causes show up in this thread just so he/she is aware of it. and if something does break she'll know that there was a problem and that you didn't do it?!

Heifetzbass · #8 11-14-2007, 04:35 AM

I would check the screws in the gear. There is probably one flat head screw in the middle of the gear. Make sure that one is tight.

BG

Arojekt · #9 11-14-2007, 07:33 AM

I don't know what's wrong, but I just spent the past two hours dismantling the entire gear system, and putting it back together. From the original look of it, it seemed perfectly fine, but I did it anyways, just to double check the darned thing.

The bridge sits right, and doesn't move or wiggle or anything. I've never had a problem with the bridge, so I can't really assume the problem originated there... besides, the other strings weren't affected, so... yeah.

I took the string back to work and replaced it with a new one (same kind, just a new string altogether) and I still have the same problem. It's quite maddening.

Nothing is mechanically awry, the whole thing just doesn't work. And it's just on the A String...

--Arojekt.

drurb · #10 11-14-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arojekt

...And it's just on the A String...

This is the strange part. As I understand what has happened, the problem does not seem to be explained by the usual stretching of a new string because this started to occur with a well-worn string. Now that you've apparently confirmed that the tuning mechanism is not at fault, I'm stumped. It's luthier time.

Arojekt · #11 11-14-2007, 04:47 PM

"Luthier?" What do you mean?

Anyways, the bass model is a Strobel, and it's a 3/4 size; if that helps at all.

--Arojekt.

forester · #12 11-14-2007, 06:19 PM

if you have the time and stringlength..switch pegs (just string) A..D if the same occurs you got the answer.
sometimes i poke enough string through the hole in the peg to fold across and cinch it with a wrap. oh yea, maybe tune the A up couple of steps and bring it down to pitch.

Silversorcerer · #13 11-15-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arojekt

"Luthier?" What do you mean?

Anyways, the bass model is a Strobel, and it's a 3/4 size; if that helps at all.

--Arojekt.

A Strobel??? Really? Not that I would doubt your veracity, just never heard of that one before. Interesting. Strobel, that is Henry Strobel, is a violin maker, a luthier. The word is not usually in English dictionaries, but is derived from lute, and describes guilded craftsmen in Germany and / or those who work on anything from acutal lutes to violins and guitars or anything with strings in other countries. It is to be distinguished from lutenist, which is someone who plays lutes as well as works on them.

I've been quietly watching this one;- the problem seems peculiarly vexing. While I have never seen any instrument where this actually was happening, it sounds almost as if the tuner gear coupling is slipping with the tension to a lower tension position, perhaps as a result of repeated vibration. I actually had a bass guitar bridge saddle that would get lower over time, and not much time, like maybe half a set (the screw posts in the saddle were vibrating and rotating as I played).

If there is a way to mark the tuner position on the spindle where the string wraps around and also on the inside of the pegbox cheek, try marking it when it is in tune and when it goes out look to see if the marks still match up. It would be very unusual if that is what's happening, but given everything you have tried to remedy the problem, Ocham's razor would point to that.

Arojekt · #14 11-15-2007, 05:19 PM

I actually had a problem with my first bass, a Fender Jazz bass... at the time, it was very out of shape and worn down. The action on that would cause the strings to de-tune themselves constantly, just like how this Strobel acts... however, I don't think the same explanation could be used for this orchestra instrument. There is no action on a double bass, to my knowledge. Everything's a whole set that anchors the strings down at the foot... It's not like a guitar in the way that you can actually change the height of the strings without replacing certain items....

So..............

Bleh!?

I may have to bring the teacher in on this one.

--Arojekt.

Silversorcerer · #15 11-15-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arojekt

I actually had a problem with my first bass, a Fender Jazz bass... at the time, it was very out of shape and worn down. The action on that would cause the strings to de-tune themselves constantly, just like how this Strobel acts... however, I don't think the same explanation could be used for this orchestra instrument. There is no action on a double bass, to my knowledge. Everything's a whole set that anchors the strings down at the foot... It's not like a guitar in the way that you can actually change the height of the strings without replacing certain items....

So..............

Bleh!?

I may have to bring the teacher in on this one.

--Arojekt.

I'm talking about the tuning mechanism itself slipping, nothing to do with string height. What I'm saying is that sometimes a cylinder might rotate in the direction of the tension with repeated vibrations. It might be detuning because the spindle of the tuner is turning in the pegbox in small increments while vibrating. Try taking the tuner apart again. Take the spindle out and put some sticky rosin on it. I think the spindle might be slipping during play. Or, no harm in bringing in the teacher. Let us know what it turns out to be. It seems rather strange.

forester · #16 11-16-2007, 03:39 PM

Lots of Strobels' circulating now are Frederick A. (Ho Chi Minh)
some of the 1/2 and 3/4s' have individual tuners,i don't know about yours being 10yrs old.. that would be an easy fix.

maybe get it close to pitch and crank a (little) paper in the worm gear it might tighten things up enough to detect where the prob is.( ofcourse the usual waiver of liability applies)

Arojekt · #17 11-17-2007, 01:15 PM

I HAVE FOUND THE CURE.

I asked our school-instrument representative about the problem at work, and he said he'd bring it in and see what the deal was... Apparently the "tool shed" (as we call them) said it actually had to do with the nut. Just essentially what Silversorcerer had implied, the continuous vibrations kept knocking it out of place. Unlike his hypothesis, however, it didn't deal with the tuning mechanism, but instead, the wooden nut just at the top of the neck. It was wooden, and we've been having extremely cold, dry days recently. It made the wood incredibly brittle and the vibrations of the A string actually caused the A string to develop a lot of wiggle room. The wiggle room, then imposed on the tuning mechanism, and then Silversorcerer's hypothesis would be correct...

So.......

Damn the piece of the instrument that's about 5 bucks max to replace... stops a darned 2K-3K? instrument...

Touche Nature, touche. Thanks for the help, guys!

--Arojekt.