strings rattling on fingerboard upon release

[fred pratt]

I have a carved Juzek that's fifty or so years old. I love it to death, but it does something that no other bass I have played does: I play pizzicato, and if I play, say, a G on the E string, and stop the sound by releasing the string from the fingerboard with my left hand, the string rattles like mad against the fingerboard, making an unpleasant noise.

All the strings do this to a greater or lesser degree, varying with the weather, all up and down the fingerboard.

One luthier told me, in substance, that "some basses just do that." Does anyone know why or what could be done? I recognize that I could alter my playing style, but I would prefer not to, and I've only had this issue on this one bass.

[JoeyNaeger]

Assuming I understand your problem, my bass does this too. I think it is more of a string and setup thing than the actual bass, but there are a couple of ways around it. One is to learn to lift your fingers in the left hand quickly. To do this, you can practice slurred trills with the bow and focus on making both notes of the trill pop out equally. The other thing is to dampen notes with your right hand when you know it is going to buzz.

[Uncletoad]

How high is your string height? Does the board have sufficient camber to support that string height?

Do you have adjusters? Does it reduce when you raise the string height?

"Some basses just do that" sounds like a copout. Its usually a setup issue.

[fred pratt]

I have adjusters and the rattling is there whether the strings are relatively high or relatively low.

I have no technical savy at all as far as set-up goes, but using my kids' ruler, I measure my string height as approximately 1/2 inch for the E string at the bridge end of the fingerboard and 1/4 inch for the G. At the nut end it's about 1/8 inch for the E and too small a distance to measure for the G.

It terms of camber, I have no idea. I assume it's adequate, since my bass was set up by a professional and looked at by another. I know a good amount of wood was taken out of the fingerboard when it was installed, since I had a rather aggressive right-hand attack back then.

[arnoldschnitzer]

I think your problem is that the nut is too high.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I think your problem is that the nut is too high.

Yea.

[bankerwithabass]

Shouldn't the strings at the nut end just be high enough for a business card to go under? You luthier types could weigh in on this. You could check it that to see if your even in the ball park, knowing that there are business cards and then there are BUSINESS CARDS! If you can put two or three cards under the strings then you will know that that is an issue. Whether that would fix your stated problem is another matter entirely.

Hows that for double talk?

[Low8va]

I am sure Arnold is right about his assessment, being that he is an expert on these things, but I am confused as to why this might be the case. It seems that if the nut is higher the string would be further away from the fingerboard, making it less likely to make unwanted contact upon releasing the string, especially if the bridge height is more elevated. Can someone (Arnold?) explain this in further detail? Thanks.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by bankerwithabass

Shouldn't the strings at the nut end just be high enough for a business card to go under? You luthier types could weigh in on this. You could check it that to see if your even in the ball park, knowing that there are business cards and then there are BUSINESS CARDS! If you can put two or three cards under the strings then you will know that that is an issue. Whether that would fix your stated problem is another matter entirely.

Hows that for double talk?

He measured his nut at 1/8" under the E. That's like 10 or 12 regular business cards.

That's damn near unplayable.

[fred pratt]

Well, it's not unplayable at all. I didn't use precision tools to do the measurement, and 1/8" might reflect more where the center of the E string is than the part of it closest to the fingerboard. I apoligize if my technical naivite is misleading.

I did have the nut raised from the initial set up; maybe it's time to lower it back down a bit.

I'm going to take the bass into the shop in a couple of weeks. I'll let y'all know the result. Thanks for the advice.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Low8va

I am sure Arnold is right about his assessment, being that he is an expert on these things, but I am confused as to why this might be the case. It seems that if the nut is higher the string would be further away from the fingerboard, making it less likely to make unwanted contact upon releasing the string, especially if the bridge height is more elevated. Can someone (Arnold?) explain this in further detail? Thanks.

Strings resist bending. When the nut is high and you press down in the low positions, you cause the string to bend in a long arc, and the string stays in contact with more of the fingerboard on both sides of the note. This causes rattling, and also causes noise when you release your grip.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Strings resist bending. When the nut is high and you press down in the low positions, you cause the string to bend in a long arc, and the string stays in contact with more of the fingerboard on both sides of the nut. This causes rattling, and also causes noise when you release your grip.

I was skeptical of Arnold's original diagnosis until I read this explanation. It makes perfect sense. My instinct has always been that if the board is shaped properly, why should there be any nut clearance at all? Many bassists insist that you need good nut clearance to produce a big sound and avoid rattles. Well, there is evidence to the contrary!
Robobass

[Felessan]

I'm waiting for the day we can get big sound with 0.5mm clearance at the end of the fingerboard.
Lower strings = better intonation (less string distortion when you finger a note).
Someone invent strings that only vibrate sideways!

-Trevor

[clink]

Originally Posted by robobass

I was skeptical of Arnold's original diagnosis until I read this explanation. It makes perfect sense. My instinct has always been that if the board is shaped properly, why should there be any nut clearance at all? Many bassists insist that you need good nut clearance to produce a big sound and avoid rattles. Well, there is evidence to the contrary!
Robobass

I can tightly put a business card under the G and have about two cards thickness under the E with no problem, although some might think that is a bit low. String height right at the nut is critical, I think to the feel of the bass.

[Mark Carlsen]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Strings resist bending. When the nut is high and you press down in the low positions, you cause the string to bend in a long arc, and the string stays in contact with more of the fingerboard on both sides of the nut. This causes rattling, and also causes noise when you release your grip.

Arnold is the best at Splaining..... The regular Ham N Egger like me can't put this stuff to words....

[arnoldschnitzer]

Actually, when I re-read my "splainin" I see that I misspoke. When I wrote "both sides of the nut" I meant "both sides of the NOTE" (which is being held down). Kindly excuse...

[fred pratt]

This is kind of ancient history now, but I'm on Talkbass so here's my belated update.

One business card would stay put under the E string and fit really tightly under the G, so I reckon the nut height was alright and I just did a terrible job measuring string height.

David Gage said that my action was too high and then noticed that the neck was loose. (The neck had some kind of previous trauma that had been repaired with a dowell through the heel.) David re-glued the neck and I lowered the action considerably.

The lower action is great. The bass is so much easier to play. I hadn't realized the action could be that low and the bass still be playable.

But I still get the rattle. I'm starting to think there's something about my bass that perhaps encourages me to employ a more downward as opposed to horizontal pizzicato attack then I do on other basses, but I don't really know.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

This causes rattling, and also causes noise when you release your grip.

I have a similar problem, but opposite. When I press my fingers down, sometimes the noises that come out are not pleasant at all. Especially if it's a hard Wayne or JoHen tune. Should I get a new nut?

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I have a similar problem, but opposite. When I press my fingers down, sometimes the noises that come out are not pleasant at all. Especially if it's a hard Wayne or JoHen tune. Should I get a new nut?

Does this occur on whole steps, half steps, or Giant Steps?

[Ed Fuqua]

I do nothing but half step....