Sustain out of plywood..?

[Rabb]

Is it possible to increase the sustain of a plywood bass? Specifically on the G string playing pizz legato notes.

[mjt0229]

Originally Posted by Rabb

Is it possible to increase the sustain of a plywood bass? Specifically on the G string playing pizz legato notes.

I'd start with your technique; your teacher could probably help. Look closely at your left hand: do you have the strings pressed completely against the fingerboard? Making precise, strong contact is important, but don't have a death grip. Make sure only your fingertips contact the string. Also, are you certain that you're touching only the G string (assuming you're holding the string down)? You want to make sure the other strings are allowed to ring sympathetically. In general, a plywood bass will have less "crosstalk" between the strings than a hand-carved instrument, but there will still be some if your technique is clean. You may think it's funny, but having precise intonation will also help - the whole bass will resonate better if your strings and your fingers are perfectly in tune.

Failing that, talk to your luthier. You might need to adjust the soundpost or bridge, or change the tailpiece hanger length. You might also be able to use one of those wire tailpieces. If your tailpiece hanger is one of those obnoxious "coathangers" that's not pressing against the top (via the 'nut' whose name I can't remember), you're not transmitting all the vibrations to the top of the instrument.

Lastly, consider whether you're using the right strings for the job. My Flex 92s are worthless for all but the occasional orchestral pizz, even on a bass that's worth 20 times what I spent on the Kay that I used in junior high and high school. Someone who plays pizz more often will be able to make an intelligent suggestion.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

There are a ton of things that could affect this. String height, string height as related to the other strings (i.e. - bridge cut), string type, fingerboard density, fingerboard dressing, soundpost placement, left hand technique, right hand technique, etc.

Can you give some more information about the bass itself, and your technical approach to producing a sustaining pizz sound?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by mjt0229

Also, are you certain that you're touching only the G string (assuming you're holding the string down)? You want to make sure the other strings are allowed to ring sympathetically. In general, a plywood bass will have less "crosstalk" between the strings than a hand-carved instrument, but there will still be some if your technique is clean. You may think it's funny, but having precise intonation will also help - the whole bass will resonate better if your strings and your fingers are perfectly in tune.

Just to play devil's advocate, I try to play legato with absolutely no crosstalk between strings when playing pizz. I hear the clarity of the line better without the halo of (potentially) spuriously related overtones. As always, YMMV.

[mjt0229]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Just to play devil's advocate, I try to play legato with absolutely no crosstalk between strings when playing pizz. I hear the clarity of the line better without the halo of (potentially) spuriously related overtones. As always, YMMV.

You make an interesting point. I'm hardly an expert, so I won't venture to disagree but only offer my rationale. My feeling has been that any crosstalk produces a desirable ring that contributes to the overall tone of the instrument since the overtones are directly and closely related to the tone of the note I'm playing, but is never loud enough to be distinguished from the fundamental tone, even in a very exposed setting (ie, a solo). I've always associated the sympathetic ring with good technique and intonation, but I can't recall any of my teachers ever having explicitly told me to attempt to produce it (or, for that matter, to suppress it).

Another possible explanation for this difference of approach is that I'm primarily an orchestral bassist playing in a section - if you're playing different styles of music or in different situations, your approach may well make more sense.

[PaulKing]

Sometimes the thickness of the paint in the flamejob on a plybass suppresses the sustain, especially if there are also lots of pinstripes. Do you really need the flames? Otherwise, try taking a sander to the woodwork.




I'm sorry. I couldn't resist it. It's so rare to see the words 'plywood' and 'legato' in the same post, I came over all comedic on behalf of all us poor downtrodden plywood slappers.

Carry on the serious discussion...

[mr.hughes]

Originally Posted by PaulKing

Sometimes the thickness of the paint in the flamejob on a plybass suppresses the sustain, especially if there are also lots of pinstripes. Do you really need the flames? Otherwise, try taking a sander to the woodwork.




I'm sorry. I couldn't resist it. It's so rare to see the words 'plywood' and 'legato' in the same post, I came over all comedic on behalf of all us poor downtrodden plywood slappers.

Carry on the serious discussion...

Good one

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by mjt0229

Another possible explanation for this difference of approach is that I'm primarily an orchestral bassist playing in a section - if you're playing different styles of music or in different situations, your approach may well make more sense.

I'm sure that's it. I assumed the OP was playing something other than in an orchestral style. Come to think of it, your description perfectly describes what I hear most orchestral bassists do.

[Rabb]

Spaced out getting back to this forum after I posted. Thank you for all the suggestions.

I forgot to mention that this is when I play amplified.

Currently I use a full circle with the fishman preamp. Tried a realist with even worse results.

[Square Bear]

google ads is so great. my g-string problems are now solved!

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Rabb

Is it possible to increase the sustain of a plywood bass? Specifically on the G string playing pizz legato notes.

The only way to increase sustain is to remove the things that reduce it, that is, anything that flexes between the tailpiece and the nut, absorbing the string energy. But the more string sustain you can get, the less acoustical energy transfers to the top. This is why EUB basses usually have great sustain but virtually no acoustic volume.

Things that I think might help, starting with the cheapest:

good left hand technique
good steel strings (spiros?)
good quality hard bridge
different/adjusted/tuned tailpiece
good thick (stiff) fingerboard and neck

You might also experiment with tuning the whole bass up or down a semitone to see whether it likes more, or less, tension. If you find a sweet spot you can then look at how you might change the setup to get that tension at normal pitch.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

But the more string sustain you can get, the less acoustical energy transfers to the top. This is why EUB basses usually have great sustain but virtually no acoustic volume.

This makes a great deal of sense. Thanks, Matthew. I had wondered for some time why, when comparing two basses I owned, the one which was far less loud than the other had a longer sustain. I figured it was because, on the louder one, more of the string energy was actually being transferred to the top. I guess I wasn't far off.

[Matthew Tucker]

Actually, the way I put it isn't quite right, it's not "acoustical" energy until it gets the soundboard moving and in turn moves some air, which becomes sound!

But you knew what I meant :-)