Synthetic tailpiece cords.your experiencie...

pollobass · #1 08-25-2009, 12:08 PM

Hi everybody.
Sorry for my poor english,at first...

Im looking for some information about the syntetic material tailpiece cord(Velvet,Pecanic & others).

Im using a pecanic in one of my basses.i used to play with Garbos and now that is my Phantom of the Opera bass,strung with flexocor...

also im looking for some kind of rope here,i've found some Kevlar and Dacrón ropes and im going to try it...

thankyou for your help,sorry for my english again...

regards

g

sjd007 · #2 08-25-2009, 06:09 PM

I purchased some "Clef hi Tec Bass Gut" for around $30 for 30cm. It has worked very well on my 5-string (hasn't broken yet) and the sounds seems fine. It comes with instructions for how to tie a non-slip knot. That seems to be the main thing.

On inspection, it is just Spectra (made by Dupont) which is commonly used in yacht rigging as it doesn't stretch and is uncommonly strong (stronger than steel cable). I think mine is 4mm diameter, possibly 3 (I haven't measured it). You can buy it for about $10 per 5 metres at boat rigging shops. I thought it was going to be something special designed for basses, but no. Just cut to a shorter length and marked up considerably!! If you want a diagram of the knot I could upload a pic.

shadygrove · #3 08-25-2009, 10:36 PM

I got 3 ft of 7/64" Amsteel (kevlar) cord from a marine supply place for $ 0.73 a foot, enough to do it twice in case i messed up, and tied it with a carrick bend knot. This knot is not supposed to slip, but still takes awhile to get to maximum tightness and also for the cord to "stretch" (it's not supposed to stretch, so maybe it's the braid compressing, but it definitely was getting longer) Took many weeks to stabilize, and I spent a lot of time tying the knot over and over the first couple weeks to get the string afterlengths tuned. It's been on there about a year with no problems after that. So the synthetic cord worked out OK in the end, but next time I'm going to use aircraft grade steel cable and avoid the hassle of adjusting the knot.

bassist14 · #4 08-26-2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjd007

If you want a diagram of the knot I could upload a pic.

yes, please!

pollobass · #5 08-26-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist14

yes, please!

+1

and thankyou for your answers, guys!!!!!!

arnoldschnitzer · #6 08-26-2009, 06:40 AM

I prefer the sound of braided stainless steel cable. I find the synthetic sounds a bit duller.

Paul Warburton · #7 08-26-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I prefer the sound of braided stainless steel cable. I find the synthetic sounds a bit duller.

This from one of the most respected double bass luthiers in the world.

True, IMO.

pollobass · #8 08-26-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

This from one of the most respected double bass luthiers in the world.

True, IMO.

Im thinking about it...

thank you Mr Schnitzer for your opinion!!!!!

From the very ,very south:

g

sjd007 · #9 08-26-2009, 05:31 PM

I'll have a dig for the diagram of the knot - I think it is a carrick bend- but memory fails me.

Agree ++ with the having to adjust it. The knot tightens on itself and there is an initial "stretch" as it seats down. I found getting the tailpiece where I wanted it, then pulling it in a little more so it relaxed into a good position worked. Have to tie it with the strings completely loose (bridge lying flat) to get enough string length for the knot, so beware of knocking the bass and letting that soundpost loose. Don't want to do it too often.

My bass is new and a little bright on the upper strings so have found the synthetic to be fine, but have the steel cable ready for later if required. I'm definitely on the learner slopes as far as this sort of thing goes. All advice welcome.

Andrew McGregor · #10 08-26-2009, 07:17 PM

I had a length of Spectra on there for a while. All that has been said above does apply... but I also had trouble with intonation with that on there. The pitch just was not stable... it would do that BG pull sharp thing pizz, and it was all over the place arco. I think Spectra is well strong enough, but it is also too stretchy.

sjd007 · #11 08-30-2009, 03:35 AM

Couldn't find the knot instructions but on looking on the net it is a carrick bend for sure:

http://www.animatedknots.com/carrick/index.php

I'll leave mine on for now, then once the bass has settled in better (a few months probably) i'll pop the wire on and see what it is like. Probably a good time to get the soundpost looked at as well - anyone know a good luthier in Auckland?

sjd007 · #12 08-30-2009, 03:39 AM

And this is what it looks like (not the knot, the string...)

Gary Lynch · #13 08-30-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I prefer the sound of braided stainless steel cable. I find the synthetic sounds a bit duller.

I wonder why Upton bass prefers the synthetic cord? They usually are on top of all things bass.

bassist14 · #14 08-30-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjd007

Couldn't find the knot instructions but on looking on the net it is a carrick bend for sure:

http://www.animatedknots.com/carrick/index.php

thanks!

Gary Lynch · #15 08-30-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

I had a length of Spectra on there for a while. All that has been said above does apply... but I also had trouble with intonation with that on there. The pitch just was not stable... it would do that BG pull sharp thing pizz, and it was all over the place arco. I think Spectra is well strong enough, but it is also too stretchy.

I'll soon know since my Upton is arriving next week. I hope I do not have to take it to my luthier 4 hours drive each way to have it changed out. Their product is called; Clef HiTec Double Bass Tail Gut.

I notice Arnold did not mention pitch problems/stretching in his note.

dchan · #16 08-30-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lynch

I wonder why Upton bass prefers the synthetic cord? They usually are on top of all things bass.

Upton is a great company with nice basses, but don't assume that they're the absolute pinnacle of bass perfection. Likewise, don't assume anybody else is the pinnacle either. Do your homework, get some experience under your belt, and decide what works for you.

**Matthew Tucker** · #17 08-31-2009, 06:35 AM

I don't think "Spectra" is the same product.

The sythetic tailguts I have tried with 2000lb breaking strain (Spectra is 350lb?) don't stretch once the knot is pulled tight.

Eric Rene Roy · #18 08-31-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lynch

I wonder why Upton bass prefers the synthetic cord? They usually are on top of all things bass.

Well...steel cable does have a different sound (so does your tailpiece material, the weight of it and the length of the after-length). Arnold prefers it (steel)...and we don't...there is no right answer here...it's all in your head!

I can say that the bass I made for the ISB competition had a synthetic cable, for whatever that is worth.

I have, on occasions, recommended to someone to try changing the chord as part of tonal adjustments...in fact I blogged about it here:

http://blog.uptonbass.com/?p=118

I have never noticed intonation, tuning instability or modulation problems as a result of our tail-gut material. I have seen various other synthetics come through our doors though on other basses...some of them I know from experience were intended for cellos, not basses...so maybe problems others have noted have been from misguided applications and material choice?

Paul Warburton · #19 08-31-2009, 10:26 AM

Wow, what'll they think of next....a cable that modulates for you.

drurb · #20 08-31-2009, 11:44 AM

I've owned two basses from Upton on which they used that tailpiece cord. Whatever it is, I never experienced any problem at all. While no shop is the pinnacle, you gotta figure that they wouldn't use the stuff if it stretched substantially and/or produced such problems.