Tail-piece "gut"

moles · #1 09-20-2007, 04:43 PM

'm in the process of getting my rig ready to play out. PU's in working order - got some nice slappable weedwackers on Whatever you may think about the sound of these, they're working out just fine now that I've filed the bridge slots to accomodate them properly. Plus, considering a set of Rotosound Doublebass strings cost $300 up here....yikes!
The last problem I have to tackle:
There is some mighty loud rattling coming from my endpin area. I'm not sure if its the excess pin inside the bass rattling, or partly due to the collar not quite being a good fit for the hole down there. I also have some of that nasty solid steel wire holding the tailpiece on.
I's seen nylon tailgut for sale, on Bob Gollihur's site and other places but for some reason they're not recommended for front drilled tailpieces. Anyone know the reason for this? Is the right angle just too strong for the nylon? I would've thought that the aircraft cable would be slightly less flexible than nylon, and therefore have the limitations of what kind of tailpiece it can be used with, etc..

I have a bunch of wacker line stock left over, and I'm having trouble coming up with reasons why it'd be a bad idea to just go ahead and use a fairly strong piece of that. Its all got the kevlar strand in the centre - I'd think that a .105 should do the trick. Anyone try this?

forester · #2 09-20-2007, 10:03 PM

does that bass have a rope starter? ... rattle good, should be easy to find,buzz a little harder to narrow down. everything should be tight downunda'....STAINLESS BRAID or SOLID STEEL. I can see it now..all that energy built up in those strechy strings delivering the coup de "grass" via the tailpiece when the weedeater cord gives it in.. well good luck keep your chin up..really.

moles · #3 09-20-2007, 10:37 PM

Its becoming more obvious to me that the rattle is being caused by some looseness in the endpin. Either its not seated properly, or its rattling inside. It comes and goes depending on the angle that the bass is leaning whille I'm playing, and I practiced for a good hour today with no evidence of it - it'll be back tomorrow though.
My first thoughts about the weedwacker line holding the tailpiece are the same as what you're suggesting - it just ain't gonna hold. But then, the nylon stuff is obviously strong enough - and I'm assuming there'd be no problem using a nylong tailgut with steel strings. I have nowhere near that amount of tension on it right now!
Still undecided about how to deal with it all though. I'm pretty much unimpressed with the job that the solid wire is doing right now though.

Marcus Johnson · #4 09-21-2007, 11:06 AM

Sometimes the length of endpin inside the bass is what rattles, especially if the pin isn't extended too far. Try extending the pin a stop or two, play a few notes, and see if that affects the rattle.

forester · #5 09-21-2007, 08:05 PM

the solid wire IS hideous.. what i've seen fail with the nylon is not the gut itself but the threaded ends being pulled right through the brass nut, just one side, but that's all it takes.
the nylon cord you mention most likely will work...just keep in mind that 90o turn on the underside of the tailpiece is the pinchpoint and that where it's all happening. also about your rattle.. can you turn your collar and thumbscrew 180o might make things a mesh a little better when you lean it. er..sorry for the double post... newbie gona figgor er out

jschall84 · #6 09-22-2007, 10:44 AM

use aircraft cable. email bob from urbbob.com. hes got a good link for it. its super easy and cost about $10

**Matthew Tucker** · #7 09-22-2007, 05:18 PM

The weedwhackers are hard to make knots in, and whatever you use has to be able to stand the tension of four strings, so one weedwhacker might not be safe enough. And what if you put steel strings on later?

I'd go for the 'clef' $15 synthetic tailgut from Upton. It works with any tailpiece, has no downsides and to attach it all you do it tie a knot.

RHayton · #8 09-24-2007, 10:24 PM

I have an Engelhardt EM-1 that took about $500 in upgrades and set up to become playable, but sounds pretty good now. The one upgrade I did myself (and I'm pretty much a novice) was to get the tailpiece cable kit, including ferrule, from Lemur bass and replace the stiff wire myself. Cost about $13. Took a little fine tuning to get the after length just right, and while I had the strings loose I wrapped a couple bricks in a towel and lay them over the soundpost to keep it from falling. I got some black electrical cable heat shrink wrap from the hardware and covered the part of the cable threading through the holes in the tailpiece. I looks good, and there is an albeit slight, but noticeable improvement in sound quality.

Marcus Johnson · #9 09-25-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHayton

I looks good

Well, that's the main thing.

larry · #10 09-25-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHayton

there is an albeit slight, but noticeable improvement in sound quality.

When I had the solid wire replaced with braded steel on my last bass, it was more than a slight difference. It sounded way bigger afterwards. Louder and more complex.

martinc · #11 09-25-2007, 05:33 PM

Over the past few years I have replaced the original tailpiece wire with aircraft cable on one Kay, a 1938 King and a 1992 Eberle plywood. It improved the sound on all three basses. The sound seemed to open up more...and the volume increased a bit.
Now I have replaced the aircraft cable on the Eberle with a Mike Pecanic composite nylon tailpiece cable. Looks like a shoelace but is very strong. The difference is not as great as the change to the aircraft cable but it is noticeable. More of a clear note and a slightly bigger sound. Also some overtones from the open string have gone but that could be because I changed the length (very slightly longer) of the tailgut. Whatever it does....I like it.

So it will be staying on the Eberle.

SlappinSimon · #12 09-25-2007, 05:52 PM

Don't use gut for the tail cable. Use steel, like the aircraft wire suggested. Mine has steel sail cable. Works great and will "never" break.

As for the buzz/rattle, does your endpin have a rubber knob on the end? Mine screws on and off and if it is not tight is can rattle a bit. This may sound silly but is there anything inside your bass; I once found a spoon inside a bass amp that was making it rattle. If you still cannot find it take it to a Double Bass Repairer. They look in places you would never have thought of?

moles · #13 09-25-2007, 09:19 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions..
I have one of those rubber ball type endpin stops - its new though, and the rattling noise has been happening since before I acquired it.
I'm pretty convinced its now mostly the excess of the enpin inside the bass. I can almost see it move when I pluck an open D or G. The afterlength is needing some adjustment also, that it'll help quite a bit.

One very small dust bunny resides in the actual bass itself, but I don't think he's hurting anyone just yet.

martinc · #14 09-26-2007, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlappinSimon

Don't use gut for the tail cable. Use steel, like the aircraft wire suggested. Mine has steel sail cable. Works great and will "never" break.

The cable will never break ....but you have to keep checking those screws if you use the brass ferrule thing. If you use the lead (or whatever) tubes you bang on with a hammer to lock the cables you never know when they might slip loose from it.
You might at least want to try the nylon (its some kind of high strength polymer I think) to see if it improves things before advising people never to use it. Or if you did try it, what was wrong with it? That would help Moles a bit more.

panos · #15 09-26-2007, 06:29 AM

I never went back to steel cable.
There's two years I'm using the excellent synthetic Mike Pecanic cable. Very strong and easy to use.
I suppose that synthetic cables from other dealers will be also a very good quality.

Silversorcerer · #16 09-26-2007, 08:15 AM

I don't think using the weed wacker line for tail gut is a good idea. I don't see how a product designed to cut weeds would be designed to also bear 200 lbs. of tension. Strung as a "string" the tension is a lot less and breakage might be inconvenient, but not dangerous. If the tail gut breaks, that can be dangerous. Keep your chin up is good advice. Wearing a crash helmet might be better advice. Or just use aircraft cable that is far beyond breaking under that kind of tension.