Temporary emergency repair

droo · #1 12-08-2009, 08:56 AM

My bass took a knock last night on the way back from rehearsal, and when I unzipped the case... the fingerboard has come loose!

I am having trouble finding someone local that could do the repair in time for a Saturday concert, and I was wondering:

would any sort of homebrew temporary repair job be possible to get me through one day of playing? I could then take my time getting a luthier to glue it properly over the next month or so (Christmas is looking empty for me re gigs!).
Presumably it's a case of taking off the strings & bridge, positioning, glueing and clamping the board until it's set - but finding the right glue might be the issue for me...

Any advice would be appreciated (even if it's 'borrow one', or 'give up the gig'

dave_p · #2 12-08-2009, 08:58 AM

you can try hide glue (you have to mix and heat it yourself). it will create a good bond, that a luthier will be able to undo with heat or steam.

droo · #3 12-08-2009, 09:09 AM

I've got a tub of some cold pre-mixed hide glue (called Titebond or something) - is that going to work for this or do I need the mix-it-yourself-at-the-right-temperature stuff?

Jake deVilliers · #4 12-08-2009, 09:44 AM

Titebond Hide Glue will get you through the show but it would be much better to just get a luthier to re-glue your board properly once - cheaper too!

Around here it would cost around $150 - $200 to re-glue the board if there were no additional issues. You'd have to leave it overnight.

wayne holmes · #5 12-09-2009, 12:48 AM

Here is what I would do if I didn't have a spare bass, or couldn't borrow one to get through the gig(Many will disagree) Since you don't have the tools and clamps, and may not know how to remove the glue, don't have fresh hide glue, etc, I would not try to fix it with glue. Much damage can be done to the neck if you are not experienced in installing a finger board. So, to get through the gig I would do this: If you don't have a steamer, take a small towel -one that you can fold to about the width of the board, bring water to a boil-with towel wet with the hot water(shake some of the excess water off)place the towel between the finger board and the neck top(cover the sides of the neck with painters tape) after a few minutes, the glue(if it is hide glue) should soften up to where you can press the board onto the neck- make sure that it is in place-clamp it if you have a clamp that will fit it(if not purchase one)careful, the board often moves when you clamp it(also be very carefull that you don put pressure on the neck or you could break or crack it) once clamped and pressed together- use industrial strength black duct tape to secure it-make sure that you get a good tight wrap with the tape in about 4 or 5 locations. Get some other tape the colar of your neck(basses neck) -It will hold and most likely no one will ever know it. How do I know that this will work- 15 minutes before a concert once, a horn player accidentally kicked over my bass and popped off the finger board- I only had regular strenght grey duct tape with me and I really could hardly any difference. Stand by for some disagreement, but this will get you through this one gig-then you need to take it to a bass luthier and get if fixed. You might save a little money if you will take the tape off first, but the luthier needs to remove the glue. Again, finger board work has high potential for damage to the neck.
MY OPINION - MY EXPERIENCE-- the best thing is to get it to a Luthier - you probably have time.Most would do an emergency repair under the circumtances. Another time, I accidentally dropped one of my old German carved just before a rehearsal knocking part of a shoulder off and part of the top. The conductor provided the tape this time- all he had was that clear shipping tape which worked fine for the rehearsal- really couldn't tell much difference in the bass. Good luck!

droo · #6 12-09-2009, 08:21 AM

Well I have managed to borrow a bass for the gig - and intend to get it to a usual luthier for a proper repair next week when I have more time...

However, is it safe to leave my bass as it is?
I have slackened the strings slightly to take some tension off but not so much that the bridge is likely to fall. The neck is still curving slightly under the tension - if I place the fingerboard back in situ, there's about 2-3mm clearance midway between the nut and the block. Is it better for me to just take the tension all the way down and take out the bridge if I'm going to leave it a week or so? I don't want to do nothing and permanently warp the neck...

Jake deVilliers · #7 12-09-2009, 09:21 AM

Hey droo, just loosen off the strings to protect the neck and tuck the bridge in a safe place - it will need to come off anyway for the repair.

droo · #8 12-09-2009, 01:24 PM

Thanks everyone for their helpful advice - I haven't posted on here for a while, and I'd almost forgotten just how dang excellent TB is!

Phil Rowan · #9 12-09-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Hey droo, just loosen off the strings to protect the neck and tuck the bridge in a safe place - it will need to come off anyway for the repair.

+1

wayne holmes · #10 12-09-2009, 02:08 PM

Glad you were able to borrow a bass-You are certainly doing the best thing. I would store the bass where there is no tension on the neck. If the board is all the way off- just take some painters tape... well you know what to do- having it intact somewhat will make it easier to transport it to your bass luthier, and it will keep the neck secure. Since the board is loose, it should be secured so it won't come off more and maybe take some neck with it. Also, It doesn't take much to break a neck. While you have it in the shop- get everything checked out- sound post needs to changed every 10 years or so., and so does the bridge. There might be some new info about getting the best sound out of your bass since you had it in the shop before- for example, most are putting a smaller tailpiece wire on. If it's an older bass, check for open seams while it's on the table. Most older basses have opened seams often. Almost every carved bass that I put on a table has one or two open seams if it hasn't been checked for them in a few years.- my expeience , my opinion- good luck!

Jake deVilliers · #11 12-09-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

sound post needs to changed every 10 years or so., and so does the bridge.

Sorry Wayne, I can't let this one go. Why? Does the sound post wear out?

Paul Warburton · #12 12-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Sorry Wayne, I can't let this one go. Why? Does the sound post wear out?

+1.

davidAaronCarte · #13 12-09-2009, 10:02 PM

The plot thickens...

wayne holmes · #14 12-10-2009, 01:32 AM

why? ie does a sound post need replaced- because of several reasons-
-generally-it loses its life
-the constant rubbing-although slight,at the top and back changes the post in relation to the top and back- you have seen the impressions that a post leaves in the top and back?
-I have taken some post out that have become warped-just like some bridges do
-If it is a factory made bass,it will not have, in some, a close grain SP
-over time, the SP becomes dryer and harder. In other words, it loses its life and the relationship of the SP to the top and back is diminished
-the bass changes sometimes when repairs are not done properly-for example a top is removed and not reintalled in the same location, ie, it is not put back the way it was found(assuming it was installed properly before-If it is the first time that the top is removed, most likely it was assembled correctly by the maker. . Even if the top plate is put back and is off just a few mms, its relationship to the SP will change. I have seen this many times on top removal repairs when the same SP was used after the repair and the change that took place would require a new SP.
-the SP is a removable part for a reason-
-change the SP for the same reason that you would change a bridge-
changing the SP with a close grain,straight grain well fitted has a postive phychological affect that one has done the best for the bass to produce beautiful tone.
-why? over time, the SP has less life to it-take an old SP and a new one-tap them and you will here a difference like the difference in a good plywood bass and a good carved bass. It has to do with the life of the wood.
-why? it just makes sense-if you are providing a new set-up on a bass with the goal of making it sound its best- if nothing has been done to it for several years(10 or more)then you change out the bridge and hopefully install a good quality French or German made bridge with a lot of life in it, you change out the strings with new ones that have more life in them, you change out the tailpiece and wire to new more vibrating ones, so why not change out the SP that has died a slow death over the last--probably more than 10 years.
-I make sound post as part of my operation. I make over 1000 a year and they are distributed to makers all over the world. Not all of them will go in new basses. Some will go in to replace old ones because the old ones are no longer the correct length or they have become tired and have lost their usefulness due to the many reasons that I have stated. May I ask why you have asked me a question that you already know the answer to.
Glad to share, anyway. Maybe it will help others to think about their old dead sound post... With lots of bass Love, wayne

arnoldschnitzer · #15 12-10-2009, 06:49 AM

Funny you mention old soundposts losing their "life", yet every luthier on the planet is looking for old tonewood.

Paul Warburton · #16 12-10-2009, 07:52 AM

My SP and bridge have been part of my 1888 bass since 1976.
I wouldn't change them out for anything. But I ain't no luthier, so what do I know.

wayne holmes · #17 12-10-2009, 10:13 PM

If they are looking for old tonewood for sound post, in my opinion, would be a mistake- I like to make soundposts out of spruce that is around 10 t 30 years old- please don't ask me to explain why, other than when I take out an old bass bar I usually have the thought that maybe I could get at least one sound post out of it. When I compare the two: the spruce cut 10 to 30(I say 10 to 30 because that is what I have on hand)with the old bassbar that could be 75 to 100 years old, well I'd choose the 10-30, beyond that you can maybe share something that might help us to understand what you think is the best thing to do as for changing out SPs. I have shared my experience and my opinion. You have made a comment but I still would like to hear what a fellow luthier would have to say on the subject. . .

wayne holmes · #18 12-10-2009, 10:22 PM

Paul, I didn't know that washtub basses even had a bridge and sound post- And, I thought that you would never teach me anything-

Nathan Parker · #19 12-10-2009, 10:24 PM

I would like to hear more about this. What Wayne is saying makes sense to me, but I'm sure there's another side to this coin. I am excited to see where this will go.

Oh yeah, by "this", I meant the soundpost/bridge debate. I know, it's a bit of a derailment, but the O.P.'s problem seems to be solved, and there is good stuff to be extrapolated here.

William Hoffman · #20 12-11-2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Sorry Wayne, I can't let this one go. Why? Does the sound post wear out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Funny you mention old soundposts losing their "life", yet every luthier on the planet is looking for old tonewood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

If they are looking for old tonewood for sound post, in my opinion, would be a mistake- I like to make soundposts out of spruce that is around 10 t 30 years old- please don't ask me to explain why, other than when I take out an old bass bar I usually have the thought that maybe I could get at least one sound post out of it. When I compare the two: the spruce cut 10 to 30(I say 10 to 30 because that is what I have on hand)with the old bassbar that could be 75 to 100 years old, well I'd choose the 10-30, beyond that you can maybe share something that might help us to understand what you think is the best thing to do as for changing out SPs. I have shared my experience and my opinion. You have made a comment but I still would like to hear what a fellow luthier would have to say on the subject. . .

Chuck Traeger (in his first book) also says sound-posts need to be replaced about every 10 years or so by a new, more flexible piece of spruce. For what that's worth. Are you in disagreement with that, Jake and Arnold, or just wondering why Wayne said it? Me, i'm just curious...