Thinking of changing to carbon fiber endpin

piperwarrior197 · #1 02-12-2009, 07:57 PM

I'm thinking of swiching out the stock steel endpin on my Englehardt EG1 to one of the carbon fiber ones Bob Gollihur sells. Has anyone done this? Is there an improvement/change in sound? Or does it simply make the bass a little lighter? Thanks for any info.

Phil Rowan · #2 02-12-2009, 09:58 PM

I got the KCStrings carbon/wooden endpin, and I feel it's helped opened up the sound on my Lang hybrid a good bit. Definitely a happy camper w/ this endpin.

MIKMAN · #3 02-13-2009, 12:03 AM

I ordered a KC wooden endpin with a carbon fiber rod. It has improved the sound, particularly in the low end. It is definitely an improvement and IMHO strongly recommended.

piperwarrior197 · #4 02-13-2009, 08:56 AM

Thanks guys, are there any other brands or types out there worth looking at?

robobass · #5 02-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Not to get sarcastic, but a CF endpin is going to improve the sound of an Engelhardt about as much as BBS wheels are are going to improve the performance of a Ford Escort! Save your money for an upgrade!

piperwarrior197 · #6 02-13-2009, 01:44 PM

I understand that my bass is a laminate but I can't imagine that changing to a wood or carbon endpin wouldn't make ANY difference in sound.....can you explain?

thewhale · #7 02-13-2009, 02:20 PM

A laminate won't be very sensitive to adjustments like this. Robobass is right. Save your money for a better bow or something like that. While c/f and wood endpins do take off weight and generally allow the bass to resonate more, it won't be too noticeable on an Engelhardt.

Nice analogy of the BBS on an Escort. Unless you are the type of person who would put "show" on a car before "go", save the money.

Rvl · #8 02-13-2009, 04:58 PM

I use a copper 1/2" pipe with a rubber tip
Tried a 1/2" pine one too but it was too flexible

For a couple of bucks, I think it was worth it
I keep my old steel one in my emergency bag as a spare

Thanks

Robert VanLane

piperwarrior197 · #9 02-13-2009, 09:43 PM

Thanks for the advice.....what the hell is a BBS wheel?

thewhale · #10 02-14-2009, 09:40 AM

It's a brand of performance car wheels. Lightweight and strong which increases performance of a car. It was just an analogy. Nevermind.

Jake deVilliers · #11 02-14-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

Not to get sarcastic, but a CF endpin is going to improve the sound of an Engelhardt about as much as BBS wheels are are going to improve the performance of a Ford Escort! Save your money for an upgrade!

Not to get rude but bullsh*t!

The laws of physics are at work on all basses, solid or ply, and changing the endpin has a dramatic effect.

Its very easily demonstrated on a Kay or Epiphone or 100 year old Czech bass fitted with one of Metropolitan Music's 'Chuck Traeger' endpins. You can play those basses with hollow steel pin, with 14" carbon fibre, with 8" carbon fibre and with a 7B maple drumstick and hear the huge difference between them.

Call or email me for an appointment!

svenbass · #12 02-15-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Not to get rude but bullsh*t!

The laws of physics are at work on all basses, solid or ply, and changing the endpin has a dramatic effect.

Its very easily demonstrated on a Kay or Epiphone or 100 year old Czech bass fitted with one of Metropolitan Music's 'Chuck Traeger' endpins. You can play those basses with hollow steel pin, with 14" carbon fibre, with 8" carbon fibre and with a 7B maple drumstick and hear the huge difference between them.

Interesting - could you elaborate? Obviously each instrument has it's own thing, but do they fall into any general categories?

bonaventura · #13 02-15-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperwarrior197

Thanks guys, are there any other brands or types out there worth looking at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Not to get rude but bullsh*t!

The laws of physics are at work on all basses, solid or ply, and changing the endpin has a dramatic effect...

I switched out my 10mm steel endpin for a CF enpin from New Harmony Music. It's fatter, like half inch, plus I had to install a new socket. The steel enpin was pretty long, and liked the idea of losing the weight plus the various comments, e.g., in Chuck Traeger's book, about how a lighter endpin can make the bass louder because it vibrates more freely. It does in fact produce more volume on my carved Gruenert Jazzbass. I can't say it's a huge difference, but it's there. Imho a good move.

Eric Rene Roy · #14 02-15-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Not to get rude but bullsh*t!

I'll agree with my man Jake. Sorry Rob!

It has more to do with transferring vibration to the floor and using the floor as an extension of your instrument. Solid steel dampens vibration to a high degree while carbon fiber dampens less. Will changing the endpin while playing on a concrete slab help? Prob not much. But a nice raised stage in a nightclub or auditorium...absolutely.

An while BBS rims by brand wont make your Ford Escort better, the fact that you went to a lower profile, wider tire with lighter rims will have a dramatic effect on your driving...Escort or Mustang!

Eric Hochberg · #15 02-15-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroy

I'll agree with my man Jake. Sorry Rob!

It has more to do with transferring vibration to the floor and using the floor as an extension of your instrument. Solid steel dampens vibration to a high degree while carbon fiber dampens less. Will changing the endpin while playing on a concrete slab help? Prob not much. But a nice raised stage in a nightclub or auditorium...absolutely.

Ok, I just A-B'd a carbon pin and a steel pin on my hardwood floor and they sound about equal. I don't think there are any absolutes in the bass business.

Oh, and with a wooden drumstick endpin, my bass has less pizz punch and is a bit darker sounding.

bonaventura · #16 02-16-2009, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroy

I'll agree with my man Jake. Sorry Rob!

It has more to do with transferring vibration to the floor and using the floor as an extension of your instrument. Solid steel dampens vibration to a high degree while carbon fiber dampens less....

Not sure what this has to do with Ford Escorts or steel rims, or what your relationship is to Jake, but here's my $.02.

By "it has more to do with transferring vibration to the floor..." do you mean it has less to do with the instrument vibrating and producing sound? That's what you seem to be suggesting.

And I can't see how that could be so. A carbon fiber endpin can allow the bass as a whole to vibrate more freely, not just transfer vibration to the floor. If the whole bass doesn't vibrate more intensely with the CF endpin, then the vibration transferred have to have the same intensity as that transferred by the steel endpin.

I agree with you that solid steel "dampens vibration to a high degree". In other words, the whole bass is held back from vibrating, and vibrates less freely, with the steel endpin. There is less vibration to be transferred via bridge to the top, out the ff holes in the form of sound -- as well as to the floor via the endpin. In a word, less volume.

With a carbon fiber endpin, there may (on the particular bass) be less of this dampening effect. There is on mine. So the CF endpin can allow for a freer vibration of the whole instrument, resulting in greater volume. But the increase in volume is not ONLY because of a transfer of vibration to the floor. Sorry, eroy, if i misunderstood your comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Ok, I just A-B'd a carbon pin and a steel pin on my hardwood floor and they sound about equal. I don't think there are any absolutes in the bass business.

Oh, and with a wooden drumstick endpin, my bass has less pizz punch and is a bit darker sounding.

Could there be a difference you didn't hear?

Did you remove the rubber tip from your endpins and really dig them steel pins into your hardwood floor? Therein lies the test. Also, I wonder if you found a hollow spot in the flooring. It might also sound different a few steps out away in front of your bass.

Bruce Lindfield · #17 02-16-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperwarrior197

Thanks guys, are there any other brands or types out there worth looking at?

I swapped out my thin steel endpin for a Carbon Fibre one, bought by Mail Order from these guys :

http://www.contrabass.co.uk

And it has been great - cured a problem "rattle" with the original and is light but strong!

Matthijs · #18 02-16-2009, 05:33 AM

Interesting how the difference in sound is attributed to different physical properties: the weight or the transferance of vibrations to the floor.

I'm quite happy with a stronger, heavier endpin I fitted to my old Chech bass. My personal physical explanation is its less flexible, and therefore dampens the vibrations in the bass a bit less. The effect is a stronger fundamental (more bass).

I would think carbon fiber would do the same thing, without the added weight. It doesn't seem likely the weight itself has an effect on the sound.

I'd welcome some scientific expertise on this.

Eric Hochberg · #19 02-16-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonaventura

Could there be a difference you didn't hear?

Did you remove the rubber tip from your endpins and really dig them steel pins into your hardwood floor? Therein lies the test. Also, I wonder if you found a hollow spot in the flooring. It might also sound different a few steps out away in front of your bass.

If there is a difference I didn't hear, what do I care?

No, I didn't have someone else listening out front, maybe there is a difference there. If the rubber tips are on all of the endpins, then that would seem to be a control. There is never a time I would use my bass with pointy tips digging into the floor of the venue I'm playing, let alone my own living room floor. If you are relying on a certain type of flooring to prove the point, then that is something you would have to bring with you wherever you play. Maybe build a box like platform, as done in concert halls. I'm not going to get scientific about it, just a quick A-B-C comparison as I use the bass.

Jake deVilliers · #20 02-16-2009, 09:45 AM

I've never swapped heavy endpins for light and not heard a difference but there's definitely a range of responses. Some basses sound only a little more open, some really expand. I don't dig the metal tip into my floor either!

I don't think its the coupling effect Eroy, sorry, but the removal of the mass. ALL parts of the instrument must be energised by string vibration and a 500 gram brass and steel endpin sucks up a lot of energy that can be released to the body with a ~180 gram ebony/maple drumstick replacement.

This effect is very noticeable with all the plucked instruments I am privileged to work on - guitars, mandolins, banjos and double basses. Weight reduction decreases response time and adds volume and depth in all cases. The sound is quicker, deeper and more complex. YMMV