'Thump' vs sustain, and E string question

[edge83]

Hi all-- curious what factors give the bass more of a thump to it vs the more ringing, sustained sound from a setup standpoint.

From playing various other basses and from the luthiers standpoint i have higher than average string height. I'm aware of technique differences for getting more of this, but there's a general character to my bass that is lower on the 'thump' or boomy, low end sound compared to when i play many others. This is even if i have darker strings on, or am ridiculously exaggerating the attack just to experiment.

One bass i sat in on recently had spirocores and was so dark/fat i thought it would be old gut strings-- and i was playing with my 'normal' technique


Curious how tension, nut, post etc. relate to this if at all-- strings on my bass do not feel tense in terms of pressing them down onto the fingerboard, but pretty stiff on the attack side.

I can't hit my e-string nearly as hard as the others as well.. there is a little bit of nut-rattle, and i can't use much force at all without getting more rattle than note. Is this nut height? The luthier just cut it a bit but it seems to get worse with time (or as i start to play harder and harder going for different sounds)

thanks for any info.

[Matthew Tucker]

Tell us about your bass. carved? ply? Strings?

[edge83]

It's a carved Wan Bernadel-- superflexibles right now, but this (especially the E string) applies w/ various different strings, and I still hear it when other (much better) people play my bass.

[Matthew Tucker]

Are you talking about the lack of volume of the E string compared with the others, or the tone of the E string?

I find the E is the hardest string to get sounding right. You might try a stark E which will give you a stiffer string, or a soundpost adjustment may do the trick. The E string rattle may mean that you don't have enough scoop in the fingerboard for your style of playing. But ... there's a lot of things it could be. What did your luthier say about it?

[clink]

I put a set of supers on my bass(carved 7/8 Romanian with a 43" string length a week ago.
The previous strings were spiro stark E, Mittel A and D with a SF G.
The supers are much easier to play and very different sounding. The SF E is brighter with more overtones than the stark E. The stark is much tighter and thumpier sounding. The bass is louder with the supers.
In my case, I believe the higher tension strings choked the bass a bit.
You might want to try a different E string.
The nut slots are low-business card spacing and no more and there isn't a problem.

[Jake deVilliers]

Sounds like you need to get together with an experienced Double Bass Luthier and go over what you'd like your bass to sound and feel like. Maybe you need to adjust the soundpost and maybe the fingerboard shape/string height/nut setup isn't optimum for your style.

We can blah-blah-blah for days here, but you need some hands-on assistance to get you and your bass on the same page.

[edge83]

Thanks-

re: the E string it's more that it doesn't have any leeway.. if i pull with probably close to 1/2 the force i can use on the other strings, i get more rattle and buzz than actual tone.. like a threshold on it.

I will work with someone on this, for sure--

I'm actually interested though in what makes a bass sound boomy / dark, as i can put pretty dark strings on mine w/ higher action and it is brighter than others i've played w/ a different setup- i'm interested in this for my own curiosity for sure. thanks

[Jake deVilliers]

You might want to get Chuck Traeger's book on DB setup.

You could also browse the threads in Setup & Repair - there's been a lot of information shared on these here pages.

"Use the Search Luke!"

[woolybass]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

You might want to get Chuck Traeger's book on DB setup.

You could also browse the threads in Setup & Repair - there's been a lot of information shared on these here pages.

"Use the Search Luke!"

Indeed you should buy the book Jake suggests. It is averitable cornucopia of info about the bass, the setup and all of the variables, as well as many repair techniques and even different points of view. The book educated me greatly and saved me more than $500 on an uninsured neck repair. Good advice too about a relationship with a trusted repairman.Good luck.
Woolybass

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by woolybass

Indeed you should buy the book Jake suggests. It is averitable cornucopia of info about the bass, the setup and all of the variables, as well as many repair techniques and even different points of view. The book educated me greatly and saved me more than $500 on an uninsured neck repair. Good advice too about a relationship with a trusted repairman.Good luck.
Woolybass

Although it may be the only one of its kind that doesn't mean all his methods meet with approval with his peers.

One thing I don't like is his mention of routing wood out of the Top to inlay patches. Mostly under the BassBar as this can lead to other cracks in the future plus you are removing original wood that can never be put back in.

Read the book and before you try anything ask a few other Luthiers first. Then proceed with caution. Working on Basses is fun if the results are good.

On the Posters set-up questions, everything matters. With a brand new Chinese Bass like yours it will take time before it settles in. Just keep it maintained and follow your Bass's needs.

For Boom vs Growl, have someone else listen to you play at a short distance across the room and then have him play. Use another Bass player of course.. See which of the two sounds really carries the note and which fizzles out because it's more noise than note..

Anything you do in the set-up can affect the sound and playability. Each Bass has it's own level of sensitivity to change.

You can have boom and sustain as well with the right Bass and right set-up. Although the Bass you have may be somewhat limited, you will eventually learn all of its possibilities and get the set-up that works for you.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

One thing I don't like is his mention of routing wood out of the Top to inlay patches. Mostly under the BassBar as this can lead to other cracks in the future plus you are removing original wood that can never be put back in.

Traeger advocates in order of his preference

1. finger patch and normal bar
2. normal cleats and a notched bar

and then mentions that BILL MERCHANT uses the inlaid butterfly keys you are talking about. And the chapter about these is actually written by Bill Merchant.

Traeger makes no comment other than to say he has observed their use.

Don't you think it a bit unfair to use that to illustrate one of Traeger's "questionable" methods?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Traeger advocates in order of his preference

1. finger patch and normal bar
2. normal cleats and a notched bar

and then mentions that BILL MERCHANT uses the inlaid butterfly keys you are talking about. And the chapter about these is actually written by Bill Merchant.

Traeger makes no comment other than to say he has observed their use.

Don't you think it a bit unfair to use that to illustrate one of Traeger's "questionable" methods?

No, it is a warning to be careful when working on a Bass and learn from many people before picking up the knife!

It is in HIS approved Book. If it was MY book, I would mention it's drawbacks but is done by some. The normal cleats with the Bar over them is the most difficult to do but the healthiest way to preserve the Bass.

Think of a bass as a helpless child that doesn't know better. Care for it as its parent and keep it safe and out of harms way!

Matt, I don't know how many old Orchestra Basses you get to look at down there but up here we see so many Basses you could write a book on every dozen Basses mentioning what was done right, wrong and not done that should have.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Matt, I don't know how many old Orchestra Basses you get to look at down there but up here ...