top table thickness

[Mike D.]

Hey everybody,
I was just wondering about the ideal thickness for a top-table.
I've read a lot about the negative affects associated with having a top that is either too think or too thin.
Too thick means: more wood/more weight, more weight means less sound/volume, slower response.
Too thin means: more susceptible to cracking, more susceptible to sinking.
Pros for Thick tops are: less susceptible to cracking, less suscpetible to sinkage.
Pros for Thin tops are: loud, quick response, light.
please correct me if I'm wrong on the above information.
What would be the ideal thickness to have a structurally stable top that produces great sound and volume?
Thanks all in advance.
Mike

[toman]

Other than a general ballpark, there is no ideal thickness; that's why factories and robots can't make good instruments. Each piece of wood and each instrument are different, and need different graduations to match.

[Martin Sheridan]

It's a good question and it deserves responses.
Without giving specific thicknesses there must still be acceptable minimums and maximums.

Personally I make my basses plus or minus 8.5 in the center area of the fs, around 7.5 at the edges of the fs, graduating to around 4.5 in the larger areas of top and bottom. My bass bars are usually around 40mm at the highest point, half that at the half way point to the ends and around 5mm at the ends.

Of course it depends on the wood, but I wouldn't make the tops let's say 4.5 in the center and I wouldn't go to 12mm the other way. I've heard that Vuillaume graduated his plates to around 6mm all over, but I asked if anyone knew for sure on this forum one other time and it didn't receive any replies.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

It's a good question and it deserves responses.
Without giving specific thicknesses there must still be acceptable minimums and maximums.

That is with what type/height of arching? and what variety of wood? Do you record the plate wight before gluing it all up?

Martin, 20mm maximum height on a bassbar is the lowest I've ever heard of. That must be for a fairly shallow arching bass top, yes? I'm trying to imagine a 20mm max height on my top. The free edge of the bar would end up pretty flat ... or even concave!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Hey everybody,
I was just wondering about the ideal thickness for a top-table.
I've read a lot about the negative affects associated with having a top that is either too think or too thin.
Too thick means: more wood/more weight, more weight means less sound/volume, slower response.
Too thin means: more susceptible to cracking, more susceptible to sinking.
Pros for Thick tops are: less susceptible to cracking, less suscpetible to sinkage.
Pros for Thin tops are: loud, quick response, light.
please correct me if I'm wrong on the above information.
What would be the ideal thickness to have a structurally stable top that produces great sound and volume?
Thanks all in advance.
Mike

Table Top? Or Bass Top?..lol.. the Table is the Top by some descriptions but Table Top you usually eat over..

I have Basses of various sizes and thicknesses. Also, the cut of the wood vs. grain strength and the species or Top wood as well as strength from grain width and winter growth. All of this comes into play as well. Many of my older Basses have been not only re-graduated if too thick but also had wood added to correct over thinning as well. If the Bass is worth it value wise or just worth it to you, have the best Bass Restorer you can find do all that is necessary to make your Bass the best it can be.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by toman

Other than a general ballpark, there is no ideal thickness; that's why factories and robots can't make good instruments. Each piece of wood and each instrument are different, and need different graduations to match.

Perfectly stated.

[Martin Sheridan]

I think the question is about general and not specifics, but I would think that there would still be an acceptable range, and that what I'm refering to.

I like an arching of about an inch and a half or around 47 to 50mm but I've seen higher and lower.

Matthew, sorry I think I mistated the bar height....around 39 to 40mm in the center, then half that half way to the ends.
I like to keep my bar running the same height through the length of the fs. Many makers off set the height in this area.


Arnold, I understand what you are saying, but don't you have some general ideas so far as thicknesses? Of course arching, wood and grain make a difference, but would you change thickness by as much as 5mm?

I don't weigh my plates, but I like to lift them and get a feel for the weight and I like to tap them to see how they are ringing.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

This is the same guy and probably the same Bass he is referring to with the long string length problem as posted here.

I think he is just curious what other work his Bass might need but that's just a guess.

That is why I mentioned the repairs I have had in the past and the reasons. More of a restoration reference than from a building standpoint. He didn't make it clear why he was asking but that's my guess.

[Don Harris]

Martin, I have a friend with a Klotz which is apparently graduated to a quarter inch (around 6mm) all over the top plate. I've not heard it, but he said it was one of the loudest, most penetrating basses he's ever heard, and he's dealt in high end basses for many years.

[Don Harris]

Also, just to clarify arching heights, an inch and a half is about 38mm, not "47 to 50mm". 50mm is just under two inches. Have you really used a 2" arching?

[Martin Sheridan]

I don't seem to able to get my measurements accurately lately. You're right.

For awhile I measured the height of all the basses that came through my shop that I and others thought were the best. They were all around that height (inch and a half). However, I have played some basses with higher arching that were fine too.

[Mike D.]

Hey all,
I'd like to thank everybody for the info they posted on this thread. I guess it was a pretty general question.
But now I know arching, wood strength, grain, etc all have their factors into the equation of the 'perfect' top width.
The question was NOT in order to figure what work my bass needs. I have a good luthier for that (and a regaduation is not on the menu). The purpose of this thread was merely to be educated by the great luthiers that post on this site. And for those who contributed, I thank you in helping me learn about this instrument I hold so dear.
All other opinions are welcome if there's anybody interested in postiing their thoughts on the matter. Thanks again.
Mike