TUNER reconditioning?

bluegrasscat · #1 03-01-2007, 10:27 PM

I have a kay 1939. and the tuners on it work great but the PLATES are a bit on the rusty side! mostly on the E and A plate! G and D has a little less! and the finish is on the blackish side! and i live by the beach(salty air).. and i was wondering if i could get some input on how to clean them up without jackn them up!! and what i can put on them to protect them.. i just dont want them to get worse.. like the car in my back yard lol!!!

jsbarber · #2 03-02-2007, 07:45 AM

I have used this for removing corrosion from stainless steel and chrome. It works very well.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...allpartial/0/0

You apply it to the surface, work it in with a brush, and then rinse it off.

Jim

ps. since you are in San Diego - there is a West Marine down on Rosecrans in Pt. Loma

bluegrasscat · #3 03-02-2007, 09:43 AM

thanx jsbarber i actually live right over the hill from west marine. i'll have to check it out.. again thanx

Martin Sheridan · #4 03-02-2007, 09:56 AM

I'm finding the same problem down here in Mazatlan. All of my tools are corroding and the new gears on my new bass are already getting messed up.

Two possible solutions: one a good coat or two of clear shoe wax; wax is practically impervious to moisture, or a light coat of clear spirit varnish. (after a through cleaning of course)

Bob Branstetter · #5 03-02-2007, 12:24 PM

The full plates on the Kay tuning machines are either polished brass or blue like one sees on guns and rifles. I once tried some of that blue liquid they sell for that "re-bluing" , but it ended up looking more like transparent blue paint instead of gun metal blue. I've also tried electrolysis on a set and but that just turns the rust to a black oxide that has to be removed with synthetic steel wood, which still scratches the bluing as it removes the black oxide.

I've often wondered if the non-brass plates could be cleaned and polished down to bare metal and then taken to a gunsmith for re-bluing. Has anyone here ever looked into that for machine plate restoration?

toman · #6 03-02-2007, 02:46 PM

How about having them media blasted, then refinished by bluing, polishing, or plating? There is a bunch of different things they can blast stuff with that will leave various surfaces conditions, like glass bead, walnut shell, and various grades of silica. That's the standard operation for refinishing automotive parts during restoration...

MT Spaces · #7 03-02-2007, 06:11 PM

Bluegrasscat ...... now there's a good moniker. I'm a grasser too. Don't know what kind of original finish that was on your Kay tuners but my '40 Kay O-1 has the chome-plated Kluson tuners. When I got the bass last October the tuners were pretty scruffy and I used Maas Metal Polishing Creme to spiff them up. Don't have a before picture but here are some after pics ...... I just noticed that the close-up pic seems to show some discoloration near the bottom of the tuner. It is actually a reflection of a wall hanging with feathers that is 12 feet away on the opposite wall. Good Luck with the Kay.

bluegrasscat · #8 03-02-2007, 11:18 PM

thanks you guys!! it's definatley making me think about all the options!! BOB i have the steel plates (blue or use to be blue!) .. i was thinking of wire brushing to bare and using penetrol ( for thinning and flow control of oil based paints) i think it might be kindof of like just keeping them oiled, and to try to keep the dark look..( then again that might not work! i just dont like rust!! ( i do appreciate all the input...thanx...oh yeah by the way! WHAT IS THE PREFERED LUBE FOR GEARS? ( probably a dumb question but i will ask anyways!! hehe

B Branstetter " now that sounds like a good way too! i would kindof like to hear if anyone has done that!!!

mrpc · #9 03-03-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I've often wondered if the non-brass plates could be cleaned and polished down to bare metal and then taken to a gunsmith for re-bluing. Has anyone here ever looked into that for machine plate restoration?

No, but it sounds like the right way to do the job.

**dkpawlowski** · #10 03-03-2007, 07:11 AM

i was thinking of wire brushing to bare and using penetrol ( for thinning and flow control of oil based paints) i think it might be kindof of like just keeping them oiled, and to try to keep the dark look..( then again that might not work! i just dont like rust!!
You could try boiling the rusted parts in water for about 30 minutes. This is how older double-barrelled shotguns were "blued". I've had best results with distilled water. The parts must be really clean/ grease free before boiling.

bluegrasscat · #11 03-03-2007, 11:05 AM

hmmm! now that sounds like a different approach to it! i am trying to think of what happens to the rust in this type of process? does the rust need to be removed completly before boiling? seems like rust and water = more rust? but then again i am use to the sand , prime, and paint thing!.. i am going to get a rusty piece of metal and see what happens, im into experimenting! thanx DK

Bob Branstetter · #12 03-03-2007, 11:37 AM

This got me curious, so I did some internet searching and found this at Wikipedia.

"Rust bluing was developed between hot and cold bluing processes. It was originally used by gunsmiths in the 19th century to blue firearms prior to the development of hot bluing processes. The process was to coat the gun parts in an acid solution, let the parts rust uniformly, then immerse the parts in boiling water to stabilize the rusting process by removing any remaining residue from the applied acid solution. Then the rust was karded (scrubbed) off, leaving a deep blue finish. This process was later abandoned by major firearm manufacturers as it often took parts days to finish completely, and was very labor intensive. It is still sometimes used by gunsmiths to obtain an authentic finish for a period gun of the time that rust bluing was in vogue, analogous to the use of browning on earlier representative firearm replicas."

It also says that modern bluing is an electrochemical process.

bluegrasscat · #13 03-03-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

This got me curious, so I did some internet searching and found this at Wikipedia.

"Rust bluing was developed between hot and cold bluing processes. It was originally used by gunsmiths in the 19th century to blue firearms prior to the development of hot bluing processes. The process was to coat the gun parts in an acid solution, let the parts rust uniformly, then immerse the parts in boiling water to stabilize the rusting process by removing any remaining residue from the applied acid solution. Then the rust was karded (scrubbed) off, leaving a deep blue finish. This process was later abandoned by major firearm manufacturers as it often took parts days to finish completely, and was very labor intensive. It is still sometimes used by gunsmiths to obtain an authentic finish for a period gun of the time that rust bluing was in vogue, analogous to the use of browning on earlier representative firearm replicas."

It also says that modern bluing is an electrochemical process.

Very nice there Bob B.. i am going to check out that process and see what its about!! thanx for the research! to cool...

**Matthew Tucker** · #14 03-03-2007, 08:49 PM

You can also blacken and protect steel by coating with vegetable oil and baking in the oven. This is how ironware used in cooking is seasoned, I've done it with doorknobs and its quite effective.

bluegrasscat · #15 03-04-2007, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

You can also blacken and protect steel by coating with vegetable oil and baking in the oven. This is how ironware used in cooking is seasoned, I've done it with doorknobs and its quite effective.

thanx matthew.. thats interesting!! do you know how long does it last ? or how often do you have to refinish or recoat finishwise! sounds like it can work allright! thats what i like about this forum,( you get a lot of different thoughts and answers.

Bob Branstetter · #16 03-04-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

You can also blacken and protect steel by coating with vegetable oil and baking in the oven. This is how ironware used in cooking is seasoned, I've done it with doorknobs and its quite effective.

I would be very hesitant to try any thing like that with the Kay machine plates because the handle assembly is more or less permanently attached and that much heat plus the coating could cause unforeseen problems.

bluegrasscat · #17 03-04-2007, 07:39 PM

yeah Bob! i was kindof thinking on the same line. the metal for the plates are not very thick and i could see a NICE WARP happening!! i would not like to have that happen.. i think i am going to experiment on some metal tonight with those couple bluing technics to see what happens.. thanx Bob B

**Matthew Tucker** · #18 03-04-2007, 08:20 PM

OK yeah if it doesn't all come apart that might be a problem. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the hot oil treatment anyway, as i haven't tried it on anything other than cookware, hinges and decorative ironwork.

bluegrasscat · #19 03-05-2007, 02:33 AM

thats allright matthew. i will remember that for when i have a customer who doesnt want to get new hardware but still needs to be redone. ( handles, sash locks, hinges e.c.t still a good idea though! thanx matthew

mje · #20 03-05-2007, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

The full plates on the Kay tuning machines are either polished brass or blue like one sees on guns and rifles. I once tried some of that blue liquid they sell for that "re-bluing" , but it ended up looking more like transparent blue paint instead of gun metal blue. ...

Those quick-blues are just copper sulfate. Look for a product called "Brownell's Oxpho-Blu", apply it with fine steel wool, and finish with a wipe of oil. You'll get a really deep blue-black.