Tung Oil?

[Martin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by toman

I imagine the oil market wasn't much as we know it; everyone in one particular area most likely purchased their supplies from a limited number of suppliers, if not a single. Something like tung oil, by the time it ended up for sale "on the street" so to speak, could be called by most any name, confused with or passed of as something entirely different, or blended/contaminated with most anything for any reason. One luthier would probably buy "finishing oil" of ambiguous origin for years or decades on end and never know quite what it was, just taking it for granted.

Tung oil has a very definitive odor and so does linseed oil. In fact, so does walnut oil. No one who has smelled them could confuse them.

I think there is some confusion here between the thin penetrating oils and the thicker oils. The thin so called tung oil finishes and some others probably would soak the wood. They are very watery like and contain a lot of petroleum distillate. A true oil varnish would not and I can't imagine pure tung oil, linseed oil or walnut oil soakiing in very far unless the wood was just saturated, or the wood was put in a vat of it and left there. Simply wiping on one of these oils wouldn't make it penetrate very far. In saying that however, I can't imagine using linseed or walnut oil as a sealer and neither would build up a finish like an oil or spirit varnish. I used true tung oil on a furniture project once and I guess I wasn't that impressed with it, because I've never tried it since.

[Damon Rondeau]

As regards pure oils -- tung and linseed -- and not any kind of varnish oil or polymerized version of an oil, every statement of directions on the can I have ever read, and any text on finishing I have ever read, advises exactly that: flood the surface of the wood with the product. Let it sit. If it gets dry, flood it again. Once you're finished with that, wipe it dry. Oil will ooze out of the wood pores for a day or two: wipe that off. In about 3 months, your oil finish will be fully cured.

When you do it like that, as instructed, it soaks in like crazy. It's exactly the point, it's the way it's done.

I don't know why anyone would want to finish a bass with pure oil. I'm know for certain it would add no protective value and I'm pretty sure it would screw up gluing.

[Martin Sheridan]

I think we must be in agreement. Those instructions are for furntiure, I imagine not musical instruments, but one can not succussfully varnish an instrument with a drying oil like linseed. That's why we use varnishes. The exception would be Tru Oil which because of the way it is made renders linseed oil, in effect, like a varnish. In my opinion it looks more like the Italian oil varnishes than any of the commercially produced resin oil varnishes on the market.

[Damon Rondeau]

Absolutely we agree, Martin. For some reason I've got a bug up my *** about this topic and whenever it comes up -- which is surprisingly often -- I feel the urge to clarify and myth-bust. It's for the record, usually not directed at anyone in particular...

My woodworking experience is pretty much related to furniture and I've messed around a lot with oil over the years. Learned a lot about it. Over the decades, one of the things the oil experience has given me is a much better appreciation of shellac!

[Jsn]

Well, just to make things interesting, let me quote Arnold Schnitzer from an earlier discussion thread. This was in response to a plan to use shellac as a sealing coat, followed up with an oil varnish. He said:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

On the subject of chippiness in oil-based varnishes: my experience has been that any oil varnish becomes chippy when laid over a shellac (spirit) base. I think the bond between the shellac and oil varnish is stronger than that between the shellac and the wood. Conjecture on my part, but I have varnished many, many basses and I no longer seal with shellac because of what I have observed.

So...what should you seal with?

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Seal it with your oil varnish thinned 40% or so. Or apply a coat of drying oil (linseed, tung, etc.), let dry thoroughly and then put on thinned varnish. I like two sealer coats before getting into heavy color.

Now, unless I'm reading this wrong, Arnold has no problem putting tung oil against the bare wood. No concerns about saturation!

Hmmmm....intriguing, yes?

[PB+J]

for what it's worth, probably not much, I made a telecaster a few years back and finished it with TruOil, which smells like linseed oil but seems to be described as tung oil. I've also done a bunch of boxes in TruOil.

It's quite a nice finish for the amateur. It can be applied by hand. Three thin coats can be applied in one day. It comes to a very high gloss and is quite durable. It doesn't cross link. It's expensive. But it's easy to use and gets good results

http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/omalley/tele/

[Gearhead43]

Originally Posted by Jsn

Well, just to make things interesting, let me quote Arnold Schnitzer from an earlier discussion thread. This was in response to a plan to use shellac as a sealing coat, followed up with an oil varnish. He said:



So...what should you seal with?



Now, unless I'm reading this wrong, Arnold has no problem putting tung oil against the bare wood. No concerns about saturation!

Hmmmm....intriguing, yes?

Thank you.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier. LOTS of bass makers use oil finishes on double basses. The "drying oils" don't remain in an oily form once they polymerize in and on the wood, so "penetration" into an instrument wood shouldn't make any damn difference.

Here's a definition to avoid any more confusion:

"A drying oil is an oil which hardens to a tough, solid film after a period of exposure to air. The term "drying" is actually somewhat of a misnomer - the oil does not harden through the evaporation of water or other solvents, but through a chemical polymerization reaction in which oxygen is absorbed from the environment (autoxidation) and the fatty acid chains link with each other to form an extremely large cross-linked polymer. Drying oils are a key component of oil paint and many varnishes. Some commonly used drying oils include linseed oil, tung oil, poppy seed oil, perilla oil and walnut oil."

[Damon Rondeau]

Ever try gluing anything with an oil finish on it?

[Jsn]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Ever try gluing anything with an oil finish on it?

Hmmm...do you really mean to imply that "anything with an oil finish" inevitably has glue problems?

I really have no opinion on the matter. I just have these facts before me:

1.) Arnold is an amazing luthier.

2.) He makes amazing basses with oil finishes.

3.) He recommends using oil as a base coat, straight on the wood.

I'm listening to you, Damon. But I'm also listening to Arnold.

[Gearhead43]

That's why basses are varnished after they are assembled and the glue is allowed to dry. :rolleyes

[Martin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Ever try gluing anything with an oil finish on it?

Yes, I have and it's no problem. Saconni glued about 350 oil varnished Stradivaris and they're still out there ticking along with all the other ones made by Stradivari and hundreds of other makers who used oil varnish.

However, no one would want to try to glue a crack together with wood that been saturated (if that's possible) with a non drying oil.

[Eilif]

I'm intrigued by the discussion regarding tung oil. I don't have much to add, but a few comments regarding durrability

1- Tru oil is generally regarded as a much more sturdy and hard finsh than tung oil or the various tung oil mixes. It's actually the only oil that Warmoth will certify as not voiding the warranty on the bass necks they sell.

2- Tung oil is penetrating, and is usually advertised as such. It feels great, and looks awesome does actually dry, and (contrary to Warmoths opinion) I love it on necks. However, is not highly protective against dents and such. I'm not sure what oil sacconi used, but a db gets alot more batting about than a violin, and in my very humble opinion a stronger finish is would be advisiable.

3- I oiled a guitar body with tung oil (many, many coats IIRC!), and after a couple of years, the finish was still very present, but it had not protected the body against dents. Admittedly it was a swamp ash body, which is a fairly soft wood, but I'd stick with a sturdier finish for db and electric bodies.

[forester]

any thoughts on turm-oil ?