Tuning Machine Upgrade

[CPike]

I have a tuning machine upgrade question for the pro luthiers.

I have thought about upgrading the machines on my '77 Pöllmann for several years, but I understand that there may be extensive modification involved that I may or may not be willing to have done. The machines still work well, but are beginning to show signs of wear and just aren't quite as precise as they used to be - but the primary reason I want the change it aesthetics. They are stainless steel, but I would love to have brass machines to match my KC strings extension. The individual plates that house the worm screw are set flush into a mortise on the cheeks of the pegbox.

I like the Sloanes and Krutz machines, but I really don't like the idea of filling the mortise to accommodate the surface plates of them. I know that Rubner machines are found on student instruments, but I checked their website catalog and saw that they also make brass French style with mortise plates that look like a much higher quality machine. So, here is my question in two parts:

1. What is the likelihood that the Rubner plate will retro fit into the existing mortises?

and

2. What difficulties might I encounter with the taper (and length) of the peg shaft fitting the existing holes?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by CPike

I have a tuning machine upgrade question for the pro luthiers.

I have thought about upgrading the machines on my '77 Pöllmann for several years, but I understand that there may be extensive modification involved that I may or may not be willing to have done. The machines still work well, but are beginning to show signs of wear and just aren't quite as precise as they used to be - but the primary reason I want the change it aesthetics. They are stainless steel, but I would love to have brass machines to match my KC strings extension. The individual plates that house the worm screw are set flush into a mortise on the cheeks of the pegbox.

I like the Sloanes and Krutz machines, but I really don't like the idea of filling the mortise to accommodate the surface plates of them. I know that Rubner machines are found on student instruments, but I checked their website catalog and saw that they also make brass French style with mortise plates that look like a much higher quality machine. So, here is my question in two parts:

1. What is the likelihood that the Rubner plate will retro fit into the existing mortises?

and

2. What difficulties might I encounter with the taper (and length) of the peg shaft fitting the existing holes?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

You will need a Luthier to Plug all the old holes, touch up the Varnish and then re-drill, bush and fit the new Gears. There is a guy down near Ft.Worth that plays in the Symphony. Arnold knows him as we all had lunch together one day with Jeff as well I think in NY. Ask Arnold for his info.

Here is the new look of my Loveri (restored by Jeff B.) that just went thru a Gear change and similar work that your Bass will need.

[CPike]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You will need a Luthier to Plug all the old holes, touch up the Varnish and then re-drill, bush and fit the new Gears. There is a guy down near Ft.Worth that plays in the Symphony. Arnold knows him as we all had lunch together one day with Jeff as well I think in NY. Ask Arnold for his info.

Thanks Ken, I figured that would be the case - I was just hoping for a chance to just swap out the old with the new, if the mortise and pegs were standard dimensions. My desire for the brass look doesn't justify the expense.

Chris

[james condino]

Ken:

The restoration looks great, but the tuning machines are bass porn!

Give me the skinny on those: who made them, are the ebony buttons custom, how many rupees will they set me back? I just finished the box on a new instrument and have yet to fit any gears on the scroll, so I'm shopping for nice ideas. Can a mortal purchase those, or were they made a century ago by some gifted alchemist? Any comments on how the gearing is? Thanks.

j.
www.condino.com

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by james condino

Ken:

The restoration looks great, but the tuning machines are bass porn!

Give me the skinny on those: who made them, are the ebony buttons custom, how many rupees will they set me back? I just finished the box on a new instrument and have yet to fit any gears on the scroll, so I'm shopping for nice ideas. Can a mortal purchase those, or were they made a century ago by some gifted alchemist? Any comments on how the gearing is? Thanks.

j.
www.condino.com

The Gears on the Loveri were purchased from a Violin Supply shop in the Midwest about 2 years ago. I don't recall the exact price but they were similar to the Krutz gears in cost and workmanship. I did get one Gear where the Ebony had a small chip in the turnings on the Shaft. I sent it back and they replaced it free of charge.

[John Sprague]

They look like the machines made in China for the New Cleveland Group. It's a close replica of a Krutz, with ebony thumbs. I'm not sure how to reach them, google away!

[toman]

I think he said his new extension hardware is brass and the machines are stainless. Thus, fugly.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You will need a Luthier to Plug all the old holes, touch up the Varnish and then re-drill, bush and fit the new Gears. There is a guy down near Ft.Worth that plays in the Symphony. Arnold knows him as we all had lunch together one day with Jeff as well I think in NY. Ask Arnold for his info.

Here is the new look of my Loveri (restored by Jeff B.) that just went thru a Gear change and similar work that your Bass will need.

Damn, that's purty.

[ctregan]

Could you just get the machines machines re-plated in a different finnish?

[Matthew Tucker]

Could you use something like these, which I just put on my bass?

They actually are surface-mounted using three screws through a plate hidden byhind the main gear. The four screws you see just secure the worm gear to the plate.

[ctregan]

Nice tuners Matthew, who is the maker?
Interesting foliage too!

[CPike]

Originally Posted by ctregan

Could you just get the machines machines re-plated in a different finnish?

Hey, I hadn't even thought of that angle, thanks! Anyone know where I would go to have that done?

Chris

[CPike]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Could you use something like these, which I just put on my bass?

They actually are surface-mounted using three screws through a plate hidden byhind the main gear. The four screws you see just secure the worm gear to the plate.

Those look fabulous. I've considered that bracket type, but I would still have to patch the existing mortises, match the varnish, etc. The aesthetic change to brass is not worth reworking the whole apparatus. I was just hoping the mortise size and peg taper were standard so I could just pop the new ones in. Thanks to all for the helpful ideas.

Chris

[jimmyduded]

plating might be rather expensive, i forget the process but ill look through my jewelers catalogs and see about a price, also it wont last overly well if the pieces are not 100 percent clean when the charge is applied, im sure its possible but not the easiest and cheapest rout to go(especially when your a bassist who plays out alot like i know you do)

[1st Bass]

"... patch the existing mortises, match the varnish, etc. "

Can you post a photo? International Violin Co. carries several types of tuning machines-- have you looked at their catalog to see whether anything they have would match?


Chet

[CPike]

No offense, but my bass needs something a bit more "high end" than the stuff International carries. I am willing to pay as much as what the Sloanes go for, but I don't want it badly enough to mess with the wood on my pegbox. Maybe I'll just get a gold sharpie and cover them with that, lol.

Just for grins, here is a pic of my machines, pre-extension.

Chris

[ctregan]

This might work!

[bassist14]

maybe i missed something here, but i think these are rubners and can be changed to the "golden" ones they make, without woodwork.
i pimped one of my basses with the golden rubners, they work well, and are not very expensive

buy them without varnish (you can ask them not to varnish them)and put them in hydrochloric acid to age them

[Matthew Tucker]

Pleasssse show us a pic of a lions head, with extension! I'm trying to imagine how it would look, and can't!

[ctregan]

Look up "electroplating" in your phonebook.