Weak Sounding 'A' string - Nothing to be done?

[JJBluegrasser]

Hi all,
So, as many of you may know, I've had a lot of work done on my bass recently. I've had the fingerboard replaced (great results) and I just finished having the bridge and sound post replaced. The 'A' string on my bass doesn't ring like the others and it's always been problematic. Don't get me wrong, I won't sell the bass over it, but on some notes on the 'A' string, the response isn't as loud, and it just sounds a little squashed. I was hoping that the new bridge and sound post would be able to straighten things out a bit, and that has not been the case. In fact, right now, my bass doesn't sound quite as good with the new sound post and bridge, but I'm hoping it will play in some.

The point here is, that I have a high quality tailpiece, a new high quality bridge, and an expert fingerboard replacement and things still aren't quite right. I use a good (and too expensive) luthier and all I can get out of them is "well, there's not much we can do about it." The problem is that I don't feel like my guy spends much time actually trying to get my bass sounding it's best. It may be a persception thing, but it seems like they do an immaculate job at the 'science' of luthiery, but don't seem to care much about how 'my bass' sounds. They do a lot of symphony work with instruments much most expensive than mine, but for how I play it, my bass is actually really good (compliments on the sound abound when I play).

Would a sound post adjustment session with a more responsive luthier be able to fix my problem, or is it really just my bass? Why would the plywood body of my bass affect the sound of one string differently if the other factors are as top notch as I think they are?

Thanks guys,
Jason

[Chris Fitzgerald]

You don't mention what kind of strings you are using, but if you could tell us that, we might be able to suggest some alternatives to try. I've been through setup issues on a few basses, and in my experience, a soundpost adjustment isn't likely to balance out one string against the others. I'd look first at the bridge and fingerboard. Is the open A too quiet? IME, when a string is too quiet, the easiest way to get it more in line with the others is to add tension to that string. This can be done in two ways:

1) Put on a higher tension string and see if there is any difference. This is the easiest, cheapest, and least invasive way to go about it, and can be undone in a matter of minutes.

2) Have your bridge recut so that the A string is higher in relation to the others. Any good luthier can do this. A really helpful luthier will be willing to cut the bridge and then have you play the bass to check and see if the specs are what feels right, and if they aren't, will go back and make adjustments all as part of the same trip. Nnick Lloyd is my favorite guy to work with these days because he understands just how personal a setup is to each player. If you decide to go this way, try to schedule an appointment with the luthier so that you give them time to work, but are not far from the shop and can come back quickly to try it out. If you find such a luthier, count your blessings.

The only other thing I can think of is the camber of the board, but on that subject I'm in over my head and will defer to those who know a hell of a lot more. Good luck!

[JJBluegrasser]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the advice! I use Spiro Orchestras, and they are only 4 weeks old. This problem has happened over 3 sets of these and a set of Starks as well.

Thanks,
Jason

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Have you tried throwing a stark A string on there? If not, what's 10 minutes?

On the string height issue, I swear the biggest GAS I have at the moment is for a Pecanic adjustable bridge - the one where you can adjust the string height individually. To me, string height is the main deciding factor on the feel of a bass, along with neck angle. The reason I haven't is only because I'm a Full Circle user, and I'd have to have adjusters on the bottom of the bridge and at the top...and I'm still tempted to try it anyway, even though every luthier I've mentioned this to thinks I'm nuts.

[pthorstenson]

We have similar issues. I have a Rauner as well. I too recently had lots of work done to it. My A string is also a little weak. I tried switching strings (from Spriocores to Dominants) as Chris suggested but that didn't solve the problem. The problem was that local luthier neglected to make sure the bridge was properly shaped in relation to the neck. This caused the A to be lower than the other strings resulting in poor tone and sustain.
I haven't done it yet but I have an adjustable bridge so I am going to raise it until the A is solid and then file the rest of the string slots down until they feel consistant with the A in tone and string height. After that I assume I'll need to reshape the bridge somewhat. I'll try it and let you know how the results turn out. I plan on doing this in the next week after a couple of gigs this weekend. Normally I would have this done by a more experienced individual but I live in rural Colorado and theres no one else.

[JJBluegrasser]

Chris,
Yes, I've definitely tried the Stark 'A' as well. It was much the same response. The problem isn't just an issue of volume. It's also one of sound quality. The 'A' string always sounds like it falls flat compared to the ring of the rest of the instrument (both open and fingered). The Stark was definitely louder, but it almost exacerbated the quality issue because it was bigger and didn't ring through as well to begin with. It just felt too big.


That adjustable bridge sounds very cool.

Jason

[JJBluegrasser]

Originally Posted by pthorstenson

The problem was that local luthier neglected to make sure the bridge was properly shaped in relation to the neck. This caused the A to be lower than the other strings resulting in poor tone and sustain.

Hi pthorstenson,
Thanks for the info. I'll be very interested in how the repairs sound. That may be my problem as well, but right now I paid $500 to the best guy in town. It was sort of funny that as I was playing my bass and feeling annoyed about the sound of that string, the absolute best player I've ever seen in person (www.johnbrown.us) walked in. They had just done a bridge replacement for him recently as well, although this trip he was there for a bow rehair. I'd like to work under the assumption that since they cut the bridge and fingerboard for me, that it should be close to right.

Although, JB is famous in this area, and I'm not, so maybe that's not a good assumption. Had I not been star struck in addition to annoyed about my bass, I should have asked him to play it and give me his thoughts.

J

[pthorstenson]

I know how you feel. In the last 8 months, I have handed the luthier about $1200 - including a new bridge. On most everthing he did a fine job but he mostly works on geetars. He is a nice, honest guy but he overlooked the bridge/A string issue possibly due to lack of experience with a bass - I'm guessing. I don't even think he plays bass but he is the only guy around here who will even look at my bass. I'll let you know how things turn out.

[Matthew Tucker]

its also a bit odd because the A string is in my experience usually the one that sounds BEST on a double bass. So yeah, try to set it up for the A only and see what happens to the rest ...

Chris F, me displaying my ignorance of US muso culture here. I do know what it is, but what is "G.A.S list" an acronym for??

[Tbeers]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

its also a bit odd because the A string is in my experience usually the one that sounds BEST on a double bass. So yeah, try to set it up for the A only and see what happens to the rest ...

I can't suggest any more than the other people already have. But I will suggest that it might just be your bass. It's not inconceivable that your instrument has a wolf or something.

As for the above statement about the A string usually sounding best... I completely disagree. In my experience the A string is the most problematic, by far.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Tbeers

As for the above statement about the A string usually sounding best... I completely disagree. In my experience the A string is the most problematic, by far.

I guess we all just have different basses, in all of my basses the A string sounded fantastic. The D and E were always the ones to watch for.

I think you can spend money endlessly if the person doing the setup mostly does "geetars". He might be the nicest guy in the world, but guitars and basses are completely different animals. Your guy might be OK for minor repairs, but for setup work you need a person with experience on basses.

You might want to take a trip to the DC area, I don't know any names though.

[Barry Ogle]

I'm still quite new to DB but heres what I did about my "dull" sounding A string. I found that on any DB I played the A string sounded dull. My problem was that I was pulling the string down toward the board with my right hand instead of straight across the string. When I made myself use "proper" technique and even added a bit of upward pull on the A string, it came alive.

I think the downward pull was just my natural motion and I still have to think about doing it correctly at times.

That's just my limited experience and may have nothing to do with what you are describing here. Good luck on finding the answer.

Barry

[Jake deVilliers]

Hi JJ.
Could you tell me if the tailpiece wire is a cable and adjustable in some way, and how do the notes on the other side of the bridge sound?
I have found that it makes a GREAT deal of difference to tune the 'after-length' to two octaves and a fourth above the tuned string. Two octaves and a fifth is what the violin guys tune to and this makes a good sound on the bass too.
If the after-length note is a little flat on your A string you could sharpen it by tucking a small softwood wedge under the string closer to the top of the tailpiece, or towards the bottom if too sharp. I amused myself at the Chilliwack Bluegrass Festival last year by doing that with whittled bits of firewood on Nancy Katz's bass. IIRC I only had to tune two or three of the strings, but it opened the bass right up - she couldn't believe the increased vibration of the back! If those notes are really harsh and strident, they seem to inhibit the transfer of vibration throughout the entire instrument.
Please don't flame me without trying the procedure; wooden matchsticks will do in a pinch!

[JJBluegrasser]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

I think you can spend money endlessly if the person doing the setup mostly does "geetars". He might be the nicest guy in the world, but guitars and basses are completely different animals. Your guy might be OK for minor repairs, but for setup work you need a person with experience on basses.

Hi Doc,
You're absolutely right about the guitar vs. bass thing. That's actually why I go to this guy. He does a wide variety of classical repairs, but I bet he's never even touched a guitar. He was actually a DB player in a previous life, so I would hope I'd be good there.

Jason

[JJBluegrasser]

Originally Posted by Barry Ogle

My problem was that I was pulling the string down toward the board with my right hand instead of straight across the string.

Barry,
That is actually a problem I have as well, and your advice is definitely pertinent. I have to constantly think about pulling correctly on my 'E' string, but I had never thought about it on my 'A'. I worked on that this weekend when I played a couple of shows and I can get a marginally better sound that way, so you have a good point. I'll have to work on that more and see if I'm the problem. I still think the bass responds poorly on that string, but I'm probably not helping by playing it in a less than ideal fashion.

Thanks,
Jason

[JJBluegrasser]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Hi JJ.
Could you tell me if the tailpiece wire is a cable and adjustable in some way, and how do the notes on the other side of the bridge sound?

Jake,
That's an interesting idea! My tailpiece wire is a cable, and I recently had is shortened to 1/6th the string length to add some tension to the strings in general. I haven't tried tuning the afterlength though, mostly because I have a pickup mounted on the afterlength. However, I don't HAVE to mount the pickup there, since I have other options, so maybe I should play with that. 2 octaves and a fourth, eh? I'll have to see where I fall at the moment.

Jason

[pthorstenson]

2nd try on this post. I had spent several minutes crafting a detailed post outlining what I did to the bridge but that got lost somewhere in space. Here is the shortened version.

My A string is much better after bridge surgery. After I got the A string at the proper height (where I was happy with the sound of the string), I filed down the slots for the other strings until they all felt at the right height. Overall, my string height is a little higher but the bass sounds a lot better. The strings are more consistant in tone, volume and sustain.
This was the fix for my bass but there seems to be a lot of good, advice given here you may want to try first. Cutting into my new bridge was scary as I had no idea was I was doing.

[JJBluegrasser]

Hey, thanks for the update. Very interesting food for thought. I'll try some of the other ideas first, and if all else fails, I'll talk to a luthier about customizing the bridge.

Thanks,
Jason

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by JJBluegrasser

if all else fails, I'll talk to a luthier about customizing the bridge.

its not major surgery

[Eric Hochberg]

According to Chuck Traeger, "...when a post is too long and tight in a bass the volume of the A string will be noticeably diminished in relation to the other strings". ("Setup and Repair of the the Double Bass..." P. 37)