What to do??

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Hello TBers once again. I am taking a casual poll and I welcome all suggestions regardless of your experience with old Basses or restorations.

I have a beautiful old English Bass currently in restoration attributed to Bernhard Fendt Sr. (by Oscar Zimmerman) or maybe Bernhard Simon Fendt II (by Thomas Martin but only from descrption of a Maggini modelled Fendt and has not seen this Bass as far as I know).

The upper Back has a circular hole that does not go thru and is Purfled around it with a half diamond seen here;



At first we thought this may be a scar from an old Neck Repair but when the Back came off for restoration there was no hole on the inside. With the Half Diamond Purfling around the empty 27mm opening we can only imagine there was some sort of Jewel, Coat of Arms or Insignia inlaid there originally as all the Purfling matches up.

My question is what should I do with this missing inlay opening?

I have several thoughts as did Arnold from a plain matching wood disc, ebony disk, an inlay of B.F. the maker, K.S.B. for me owning it, my "S" logo in Abalone in an ebony disc.. Etc..

So, if this were yours and you knew the history of this Bass, the maker and/or London at it's time of making, what would you do with that missing gap?

A brief history of Bernard Fendt Sr. for those of you with questions about him; Born on 9th May 1756 in the Bavarian town of Füssen (Innsbruck, Tyrol) and his mother Anna was related to the Klotz family. At age 7 he was sent to Paris to work with his uncle François Fent (french for FenDt, who was well established in Paris at that time as a great maker) and learn violin making. Vincent Panormo was also in Paris during Fendts stay. In 1798, 2 years after his uncles death, he moved to london and worked for Thomas Dodd. Panormo left paris and went to Dublin (Thomas Perry shop) and later to London and worked for John Betts. After 11 years in 1809, Fendt left Dodd and went to work for John Betts as the head of the shop. Fendt's first son Bernhard Simon (b.1801, d.1852) was also brought into the Betts shop to work and learn from his father. They both worked in the shop until 1823 and then Fendt joined Bett’s nephew Vernon in a new shop. Fendt Sr. died in London on 15th November 1832. Around the time of his fathers death, Bernhard Simon Jr. went into partnership with Charles Joseph Farn, (an ex-employee of Vernon’s). Only one known violin bears his name as Fendt Sr. spent most of his life working for others.

Now, after reading a little about his life, it is evident that if this is his Bass it may have been ordered by someone of wealth as the wood on the back is about the best you will find especially for that period in London. I assume that whomever this was made for, an inlay was placed within that Purfled Diamond under the Neck Button. I don't want to leave an empty hole or over decorate it unjustly but rather add to the already existing charm of the Bass and show respect where it is due.

Your suggestions please??

[Matthew Tucker]

I wouldn't put BF because although its attributed to a Fendt you're not 100% sure.

If it were mine I'd be proud to inlay my own owner's insignia or something in the back, but make it removeable so that the next owner can have the same pleasure - or they might leave it there in your honour.

cheers

Matthew

[Damon Rondeau]

Headphone jack?

[Bob Branstetter]

Given the long history of this instrument, why be in a hurry to do anything with it. Since it is external problem that can be addressed at a later time, why not just keep researching the bass and attempt to find any previous owners or even the family of a previous owner that may have owned it prior to the loss of what ever it was in that spot. IMO, any inlay with your initials would be inappropriate given that it is possible that you may sell the instrument at a later time.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Given the long history of this instrument, why be in a hurry to do anything with it. Since it is external problem that can be addressed at a later time, why not just keep researching the bass and attempt to find any previous owners or even the family of a previous owner that may have owned it prior to the loss of what ever it was in that spot. IMO, any inlay with your initials would be inappropriate given that it is possible that you may sell the instrument at a later time.

Bob, I know who all the owners were since the 1970s when it hit Canada. It as in the Montreal, Rochester and Dallas Orchestras. First two were the principals. Should I name names? It also has an engraving inside the back by a restorer from London in 1944. You know I have a rare Samuel Gilkes and this also has stamps in the back from his pupil J.Hart.

What ever we do with that area in the Back, I would like it to be before the Restoration is done so the touch-up varnish is all the same.

I was thinking of a simple disc in the same flamed Sycamore or maybe Ebony and finished flush or even slightly raised with rounded edges with the Ebony.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Bob, I know who all the owners were since the 1970s when it hit Canada.

I understand about wanting to keep the touchup varnish the same, but that's only about 35 years. How about before it got to Canada?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I understand about wanting to keep the touchup varnish the same, but that's only about 35 years. How about before it got to Canada?

Well, I am at a loss there. Jacques Gagnon brought the Bass over in the '70s as he did many from Europe. The Repairer of 1944 was Zetwitz?, London. Arnold can tell me more if I ask him or next time I am there, I will write down what is says in there. A short story from what I remember. Another London firm laminated their business card on the Ribs at the Block by the endpin socket. I have asked Arnold to carefully remove it and place it inside the Back and then touch up the Ribs afterwards.

It is a great sounding Bass and has had quite a bit of use and repairs. This restoration may be the biggest one yet for me. The Mystery Bass is the only other Bass that may come close. That needs a Scroll graft and several back repairs. This one has a near mint back and the Neck/Scroll is fine but needs some pegbox inlays where the Tuner plates were sloppily inlaid. The Top of the Fendt need alot of the work and the Ribs as well. The Mystery Bass has cracks on the top but is in great shape other wise. Tons or rib repairs as well and a bit new lining too. The Fendt gets all new lining, all 12 pieces. Most all the Blocks are good on both Basses.

I don't know who in Europe would still know about this Bass if it was in use just prior to coming over. I was told it went right into service when it arrived in Canada.

[Jazzin']

Inlay with a cool logo inscribed in it.

[Damon Rondeau]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

...even slightly raised with rounded edges with the Ebony.

I like this one -- ever so slightly proud of the surface, a true button.

[D McCartney]

Perhaps a fleur de lis or other design?

[Basshole]

A button labelled:

a) "Press for attendant"
b) "Press for nurse"
c) "Press to signal drummer"
d) "Loudness"
e) "Carrots"

[bongomania]

[ZombieGhosTrain]

You could use some sort of bright inlay (pearl, abalone, something) and break it up, and make a mosaic-ish design. A spiral or something. A design that would stand out, not be tacky, look cool, and be anonymous-just like the bass. No names or anything, as this bass seems to last longer than any one owner.

[PB+J]

I would want to get something period-correct in there--I'll bet it was made for someone's private string quartet and there are (or were) probably four other instruments with similar features somewhere.

Have you ever thought of contacting the Smithsonian? They have a luthier on staff, Gary Sturm, who is also the curator of their historic instruments collection, which includes four Strads. He and I were close friends twenty years ago. The curators generally have vast private archives of information they accumulate in the course of their job, and the museum has a research library as well. This kind of public inquiry is a significant part of what they are supposed to do, and they care about history and getting it right

Smithsonian employees are obliged to answer public inquiries-if you look him up and give him a call, he might be able to help

If you can't ever find what was in there or might have been in there, then I would make a period-correct Ken Smith logo in there. You are a major figure in the history of the electric bass, and you are making yourself a loving part of this bass's history--it seems entirely appropriate to me

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Basshole

A button labelled:

a) "Press for attendant"
b) "Press for nurse"
c) "Press to signal drummer"
d) "Loudness"
e) "Carrots"

f) "Press for downbeat signal"

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

f) "Press for downbeat signal"

Arnold? You of all people with the jokes. Well - I - declare.. .. Keep this up fella and I'll tell people I call you 'Arnie'!!

Anyway.. On all the suggestions (NOT Arnolds), I like the raise Ebont Disc plain OR the Ebony disc flush or raised with our "S" Logo in dark Abalone. As mentioned I am somewhat of a figure in the Bass world and the current owner no doubt. If there was anything there at all in there, I would have left it no matter what as long as it was a part of the past history of the Bass.

As you can see, I have not made any negative comments on the suggestions no matter how funny they were in jest. Arnold gets a 'slide' on this one.. lol

This is the Shape of the "S".

I don't think we can fit the entire logo and a single Abalone 'S' would look nice and simple I think.

Here is a shot with the actual 'S' in use.

[D McCartney]

Go for it.

[john turner]

i think it might be cool to have your "S" logo in it, making it easily removable for a future owner.

i imagine it's really evident with instruments like these, that have been around for centuries, and will continue to be so for more, hopefully, how folks are just custodians of them.

[drurb]

If it were mine, I would either restore it in some historically accurate way based on research or simply leave it alone. The former option confers authenticity while the latter retains it (assuming someone did not add this feature along the way). I would not modify it in any way that could be construed as "creative" or personalize it. To me, personalizing it would be like the current owner of a Duesenberg SJ replacing the radiator emblem wih a picture of himself. It would seem to violate the history that the article carries unto itself and ones responsibility as the curator of a historically significant item.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by drurb

If it were mine, I would either restore it in some historically accurate way based on research or simply leave it alone.

+1