what to expect after major work....

[G-force]

Hey all, I am about to pick up my bass from getting some major work done to it.
New bass-bar,bridge soundpost ,crack repair plus having the top reshaped from some sinkage.

My questions are,

what should I expect as far as sound is concerned with a new bass bar and newly formed table ?

How long should the break in period be ?

Thanks

G

[Rosenfield]

Let's hope better and louder!

I had almost the same things done to my bass (except they only refitted the bass bar), and it felt like it took a month or so until it was fully stable...

But, perhaps this also has to do with the fact that with a new bridge etc. the bass won't feel exactly like it did before, so you will need some time to get accustomed to it.

[jimmyduded]

each piece will take awhile to fully set, so the tone will slightly change, but it should take a week or so to be set

[Matthew Tucker]

Glen, is this one of your Devereux's?

I think that your question is such a "how long is a piece of string?" question, its really hard to even think about how to answer it!

Please tell us about the bass and what it was like before you sent it away for work? Who's doing the work? What do you hope to get out of the repairs? New strings too? What about some pics??

The break-in period will depend on what you do with it, surely? They don't "break-in" on their own!!

MT

[Sam Sherry]

My experience:

The changes over the first few hours are dramatic
Over the first few days, substantial
Over the first few weeks, noticeable
After half a year, it sounds like what it sounds like for the next decade

Bear in mind that if you're getting new strings you'll also be hearing the string-break-in thing.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Well, if this is your Devereux, then I can share some experience with you. My Gilkes was restored just over a year ago. Although it did not have the Top pressed out it did get a new Bassbar. There were some graduation corrections as well as complete inner half edging. The Gilkes is just beginning to break in. A friend of mine has a Fendt that was restored a few years ago and it took 2-3 years for the sound to start opening up with the new Bar and all. My Hart Bass (which Tom Martin thinks was made by John Devereux for Hart) just had the Top pressed out, two small breast patches, a new Bassbar, new tail block, ALL new internal linings, complete inner half edging, all ribs repaired and a host of other things may be more on the line of the work just done on your Bass. I expect I wont see much breaking in for awhile. My old 18th century Italian Bass was restored in 1973 and I think it took about 3-5 years to settle in.

With a new Bass, new Top shape and new wood inside, it has to break in. Now it's an old Bass with new wood mixed in it.

Give it some time. Play it every day. If anything looks or feels wrong, call your Luthier right away. If you can, please post pics of your Bass before and after if possible.

Is this your Bass here?

[G-force]

Wow, thanks for the help !! I'll keep you updated with photos and all.
Ken, it is that bass. I finally had the time ( and money) to invest in this sort of work . Not to mention someone with whome I trust to do the work. Thomas Schiegnitz in Berlin did the work. It took a few months only.

I will post some photos of the work when I get back. I have to drive to Berlin tomorrow non stop from Oslo ( about 13.5 hrs) and then start driving back on sunday already.

I am very excited about the work. You see he has an interesting bridge design which is a combo of french and Belgian.
I kind of expect this to take time. It will keep me busy until my lipkins bow is ready....
The only drawback with the work is that Schiegnitz had to remove a signiture of Devereux in the bass inorder to do the job properly... Yes I took a picture of it...

Stay tuned

[arnoldschnitzer]

Here's what I tell new clients when they commit to a major restoration: Bass players generally like a bottom-heavy sound. When their bass is falling apart, the different pieces are not vibrating as a unit. Seam openings and cracks are spilling air where they should not be. Braces are loose and flapping in the breeze. So the overtones tend to be muffled, and the bass sounds "dark". When a major restoration is done (and done well), the bass' parts will vibrate as a unit, all the seams and cracks will be tight, and the overtones will be screaming. Because of the way we hear, those overtones (highs) will tend to capture our attention. Now the bass does not sound so "dark" anymore. It sounds sort of "bright" or "raw". In reality, though, we have not lost any bottom (or very little), but we have gained overtones, or treble. These overtones are what gives the instrument definition, carrying power and tonal color. Over time, the entire instrument will relax from the torture of surgery, and the sound will become more like what the player was used to. But it will never be exactly the same; usually it will be somewhat "better", if "better" means enhanced clarity, response, and breadth of tone.

Now to the contrary, if the restorer has a heavy hand and uses too much wood, the wrong wood, or the wrong types of glue, or puts things like the bass bar in the wrong place, just expect the bass to sound bad.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Here's what I tell new clients when they commit to a major restoration: Bass players generally like a bottom-heavy sound. When their bass is falling apart, the different pieces are not vibrating as a unit. Seam openings and cracks are spilling air where they should not be. Braces are loose and flapping in the breeze. So the overtones tend to be muffled, and the bass sounds "dark". When a major restoration is done (and done well), the bass' parts will vibrate as a unit, all the seams and cracks will be tight, and the overtones will be screaming. Because of the way we hear, those overtones (highs) will tend to capture our attention. Now the bass does not sound so "dark" anymore. It sounds sort of "bright" or "raw". In reality, though, we have not lost any bottom (or very little), but we have gained overtones, or treble. These overtones are what gives the instrument definition, carrying power and tonal color. Over time, the entire instrument will relax from the torture of surgery, and the sound will become more like what the player was used to. But it will never be exactly the same; usually it will be somewhat "better", if "better" means enhanced clarity, response, and breadth of tone.

Now to the contrary, if the restorer has a heavy hand and uses too much wood, the wrong wood, or the wrong types of glue, or puts things like the bass bar in the wrong place, just expect the bass to sound bad.

Arnold? You torture me!

But, thank's from the 'bottom' of my Hart!

[G-force]

As my Norsk friends would say " UFF DA:::"

That's oy vay for you New Yorkers

Thanks Arnold. I kind of figured as much.

Glenn


Ken, Tell me more about this Hart Devereux connection from T.Martin.
You see, I am kind of cynical by nature but I can't find any info on J Dev out there other than the ABC violin site and the is it , Henley violin maker book. I am starting to believ that Devereux is sort of the Mystery great bass maker. Cause I'll tell ya my bass kicks #¤%&. It has the Italian overtones with an english touch. But why aren't there more ?

Any ideas...?

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by G-force

As my Norsk friends would say " UFF DA:::"

That's oy vay for you New Yorkers

Thanks Arnold. I kind of figured as much.

Glenn


Ken, Tell me more about this Hart Devereux connection from T.Martin.
You see, I am kind of cynical by nature but I can't find any info on J Dev out there other than the ABC violin site and the is it , Henley violin maker book. I am starting to believe that Devereux is sort of the Mystery great bass maker. Cause I'll tell ya my bass kicks #¤%&. It has the Italian overtones with an English touch. But why aren't there more ?

Any ideas...?

Well not everyone agrees with Tom Martin whatever that means. Looking at Devereux, his birth year and his history in England it only has him c1850 with Fendt. What did he do the rest of the time? Did he work IN the Shop of BF Fendt or work FOR Fendt as an out worker. Martin claims that Devereux made most of the BF Fendt Basses. After all, Fendt was busy making Italian forgeries and was the best of London at that thievery practice. When would he have time to make a Bass?

Hart is another mystery as well. he became a dealer in the early 1830s or maybe later. Gilkes dies in 1827. What did he do between that time? He was very well trained? How did William Gilkes become such a good Maker when his father died when he was only 16? Did Hart help him? Did they work together after Samuel's death? William Valentine is credited with making most of the Hart Basses from the 1840s - 1870s. Was Devereux just a free lancer known mostly from his association with Fendt? It is also written that Devereux did not care for the deceptive practices that Fendt was doing and later infamous for. Also, Devereux did not move to Australia on his own whim? I hear he was convicted of something and sent there in 1854 with all the other criminals that where shipped off to purify the English morals.

I have seen 4-5 Basses claiming to be made by Devereux. None of them looked like a Hart or a BS Fendt for that matter. What does this all mean? Well, theories mostly with some recorded facts. A Bass made in Australia in 1856 made by Devereux is cataloged. Some books have him moving there from 1864. How can that be?

My Bass is a Hart regardless of who made it. Your Bass is a Devereux. They are completely different but 19th century England has so many similar looking Basses as that is what the style was that everyone was making. Look at all the German Basses in the last 150 years. Do you see more than 3-4 models between them? Style is style. Hard to break a pattern of culture.

[G-force]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Well not everyone agrees with Tom Martin whatever that means. Looking at Devereux, his birth year and his history in England it only has him c1850 with Fendt. What did he do the rest of the time? Did he work IN the Shop of BF Fendt or work FOR Fendt as an out worker. Martin claims that Devereux made most of the BF Fendt Basses. After all, Fendt was busy making Italian forgeries and was the best of London at that thievery practice. When would he have time to make a Bass?

Hart is another mystery as well. he became a dealer in the early 1830s or maybe later. Gilkes dies in 1827. What did he do between that time? He was very well trained? How did William Gilkes become such a good Maker when his father died when he was only 16? Did Hart help him? Did the work together after Samuel's death? William Valentine is credited with making most of the Hart Basses from the 1840s - 1870s. Was Devereux just a free lancer known mostly from his association with Fendt? It is also written that Devereux did not care for the deceptive practices that Fendt was doing and later infamous for. Also, Devereux did not move to Australia on his own whim? I hear he was convicted of something and sent there in 1854 with all the other criminals that where shipped off to purify the English morals.

I have seen 4-5 Basses claiming to be made by Devereux. None of them looked like a Hart or a BS Fendt for that matter. What does this all mean? Well, theories mostly with some recorded facts. A Bass made in Australia in 1856 made by Devereux is cataloged. Some books have him moving there from 1864. How can that be?

My Bass is a Hart regardless of who made it. Your Bass is a Devereux. They are completely different but 19th century England has so many similar looking Basses as that is what the style was that everyone was making. Look at all the German Basses in the last 150 years. Do you see more than 3-4 models between them? Style is style. Hard to break a pattern of culture.

well I got the bass back home yesterday after driving 1250 km . we only just left for Berlin on saturday morning.

The bass sounds GREAT ! even better than I had ever expected. Arnold's advice was very good. The bass DID have more overtones screaming. But the bass has more direction and power as well as a very nice clarity and punch. I had this before but now it's even MORE . Crazy. I didn't expect it to sound this good so soon.

Ok what did he do ?
The new arching on the table is supported by a very thin but large patch of Spruce. The patch is set at a slightly different angle than the table so as to counteract any cracking and to give more support to the top. He took out some wood in the tailpiece as well.
The bassbar is new and set a little out to the bass side. It is slightly slimmer than before.
The bridge is a work of mastery. He designa all of his bridges from scratch. He doesn't use a blank and then file it down. ( I'll post photos).
The bridge is very 1930's looking, I mean a little art deco. Non adjustable. He'll make another for me in the spring when we figure out how much the table moves.
I'll post some photos later today. Now I need to get back to practicing.
But one last word. If you need your bass set up by a master.
Look up Thomas Schiegnitz in Berlin.
He is in the process of making modern basses as well but he only builds them as the orders come in. I soon believe he'll be very busy.....

Thanks ken for al your info on JD.

Glenn