What Knives?

anon_6j591b0 · #1 08-05-2007, 12:29 PM

I'm laying out the neck for a travel bass and as compact is one of the points I had been planning on a sans scroll box. Seeing the pics of the beautiful scroll Don Harris carved though has changed my mind and I don't see how I could possibly sacrifice to practicality the beauty and balance a scroll lends.

I've never carved anything like this before and while I have a nice spokeshave and a few assorted gouges and chisels I'm wondering specifically what knives you guys use for making a scroll?
Thanks.
jeff

**Matthew Tucker** · #2 08-05-2007, 04:22 PM

I used a bandsaw/jigsaw for the outline, japanese saw for roughing it out, and a variety of gouges. I used a block plane for flattening the cheeks and a homemade luthiers plane for the larger sweeps. I used a couple of straight sided chisels and one strange bent one for the pegbox. Files and rasps for the fluting. Sanding sticks and paper where necessary. I didn't use a knife or a spokeshave.

Don Harris · #3 08-06-2007, 10:25 PM

Much like Matthew, I used a Japanese saw for the rough cuts (after bandsawing the outline) and mainly chisels for removing waste and actually carving the scroll, a gouge for undercutting the volutes and hand planes for flattening the cheeks, and files, rasps and a little palm gouge for doing the fluting. I had a chisel set, using mostly the 1/2, 3/4, and 1" chisels. I also kind of rounded off the corners of a cheap 1/2" chisel and used it a lot to fine tune and clean things up. Here's a site with a few instructional pics: http://darntonviolins.com/viola3.php, and another: http://www.jasminedavis.com/cello/gallery/album08. I used the Chandler book and a violin making book ("The Art Of Violin Making" by Johnson and Courtnall) as references. It was fun to do. Good luck! Oh, and I did use a carving knife I bought at Woodcraft for the last little bit of carving into the eye, and a cheap set of little riffler (sp??) files to clean up the tight spots. -don

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 08-06-2007, 10:41 PM

Jeff - what about a detachable scroll?

anon_6j591b0 · #5 08-06-2007, 10:47 PM

Thanks guys....very, very helpful. I need to get some rasps I think. With any luck I'll get out of Lee Valley Tools with enough left to make my mortgage payment.....

anon_6j591b0 · #6 08-06-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Jeff - what about a detachable scroll?

You mean one built separately from the neck and grafted on or one that actually comes off for transport?

**Matthew Tucker** · #7 08-07-2007, 12:55 AM

Well, you said you're making a travel bass, so any extra length is a luxury. You could make the scroll part attach to the pegbox with a slightly tapered dovetail.

Or ........ why not dispense with the pegbox altogether and put the machines on the tailpiece? An acoustic upright Steinberger. (Beurrrrk.)

anon_6j591b0 · #8 08-07-2007, 01:14 AM

It is a travel bass but it's a 34" scale similar to my Azola Deco but built on a cello body to facilitate arco and give a more mechanically sound playing position. I should have enough length to play with to have a scroll and still keep it airline friendly.

<gak...choke...sputter....> HEADLESS???
Based on my experience and conversations over the years with local luthiers Paul Iverson and Mike Kinal (who built a whole lot of headless slabs in the 80's) I think a headstock and tuners adds to the resonance of the instrument. I studied with David Friesen and he plays a headless EUB and I didn't especially care for the sound of it....somewhat artificial to my ears even for an EUB. Mighta been all that reverb he uses though. If nothing else headless is visually very unappealing to me. My tastes may be somewhat odd but I'm a bit of a traditionalist in a lot of ways. You were kidding, yeah?

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 08-07-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

You were kidding, yeah?

I'm always kidding ... sort of

Hey how come your Azola Deco has an ARCHED bridge?? It's a guitar, no?

anon_6j591b0 · #10 08-07-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I'm always kidding ... sort of

Hey how come your Azola Deco has an ARCHED bridge?? It's a guitar, no?

A guitar unlike any other. It has a highly arched ebony finger board and a very thick neck with no truss rod much more like an upright than a guitar. If you didn't play the double bass you'd get frustrated pretty quickly trying to get a sound and play it in tune. I like everything about it except that the body is too wide to play with the bow.

**Matthew Tucker** · #11 08-07-2007, 03:17 AM

So why is the fingerboard so arched?

anon_6j591b0 · #12 08-07-2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

So why is the fingerboard so arched?

You'd have to ask Steve Azola for the definitive answer but I'd think looks had a lot to do with it. What attracted me immediately though is that the arch makes it feel like an upright and you naturally want to articulate things like you would on the big bass. I should really figure out where to post some audio clips of it.....

Silversorcerer · #13 08-07-2007, 10:27 PM

Highland Hardware has an online resource catalog for many fantastic tools from England, Germany, Japan, USA, Sweden, and anywhere else that makes a good tool. I picked up a real nice draw knife and spoke shave there as well as a couple of Flexcut knives that I used for carving my bridge and a Stanley rabbett plane that I used for dressing the fingerboard. It's cool to have them online, but for me they are within walking or bicycling distance. They don't give me a price break for walking in, and I have to pay Georgia sales tax, so having them in the neighborhood is a mixed blessing.

anon_6j591b0 · #14 08-07-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

They don't give me a price break for walking in, and I have to pay Georgia sales tax, so having them in the neighborhood is a mixed blessing.

Mixed blessing is right in a few ways. I am sooooo glad I can't just walk in there.....I'd be broke for weeks! That place makes Lee Valley look like Toys-R-Us.

I've been looking at the 80's-ish Czech ply cello body I've been intending to use for my little bass and now I'm actually gearing up to start I'm thinking it's not really nice enough to warrant the amount of work I have ahead. Feelings about the short scale and lower volume aside am I nuts thinking about using something like a Prescott church bass body (one of which I know is available). I'm really don't want to spend the effort to build a nice neck for a mediocre body and end up with a mediocre bass.

Silversorcerer · #15 08-09-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

I've been looking at the 80's-ish Czech ply cello body I've been intending to use for my little bass and now I'm actually gearing up to start I'm thinking it's not really nice enough to warrant the amount of work I have ahead. Feelings about the short scale and lower volume aside am I nuts thinking about using something like a Prescott church bass body (one of which I know is available). I'm really don't want to spend the effort to build a nice neck for a mediocre body and end up with a mediocre bass.

How big is the cello body? Is it 4/4 or 3/4????

I have a cello neck, fingerboard, and pegbox assembly complete with pegs. The pegs look rosewood, the FB is definitely some nice ebony, and the neck is a faux flamed (painted on) type. Nothing fancy, but all serviceable. I think the body got burned because the finish on the neck is bubbled up from heat in places, but nothing structural wrong with it that I can see.

anon_6j591b0 · #16 08-09-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

How big is the cello body? Is it 4/4 or 3/4????

I have a cello neck, fingerboard, and pegbox ...........

It's a 4/4 and the neck I want to build would be a 34"scale to take Thomastik long scale flat wounds. I've actually just put out feelers though to Steve Azola about building me a whole instrument....work is kicking into high gear where it looks like it's gonna stay for a year or so and at 60-80 hours a week I'm having doubts about my ability to get much done building a neck myself. I love the size and voice of the Deco to death but I spent so many years with the bow that after 5 years of not having anything bow-able I really need an instrument that I can do that on. If this is something Steve wants to do I'll probably get him to make it. If not maybe I can find a better 4/4 cello body and Gerard Samija will build a neck.