Where do people find old basses to restore?

JJDMusic · #1 02-17-2010, 12:08 PM

A Simple question really. I always see these basses that are in utter disarray. The tops cracked up or not even on the bass. Needs a neck graft or scroll work. Basically unplayable and in need of a full restoration. Where do people find these basses? Do they find them in attics of old homes, basements of churches, or do they hunt them out overseas to ship them in? I have always wanted to find a bass and have it professionally restored to either keep it or try to flip it. I think it would be fun. Upton is selling a Prescott as is but, I feel that they would require a high price for this instrument, which does not have the original back, it is a laminate. Not to mention it would probably cost well over $10,000 to have someone restore it. What do you guys think of restoration finds? Where to find them? Worth it?

Jazz Ad · #2 02-17-2010, 01:46 PM

eBay and Craigslist have a pretty much infinite supply of damaged uprights.
Garage sales can be good for a lot of things but uprights are a rare specy, quite uncommon in families of non musicians.

Mike Goodbar · #3 02-17-2010, 01:54 PM

I've often wondered what the response would be if I hung a sign on the bulletin board at the grocery store: "Will Pay Up to $200 Cash For Your Old Bass Fiddle!"

gbaker · #4 02-17-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

A Simple question really. I always see these basses that are in utter disarray. The tops cracked up or not even on the bass. Needs a neck graft or scroll work. Basically unplayable and in need of a full restoration. Where do people find these basses? Do they find them in attics of old homes, basements of churches, or do they hunt them out overseas to ship them in? I have always wanted to find a bass and have it professionally restored to either keep it or try to flip it. I think it would be fun. Upton is selling a Prescott as is but, I feel that they would require a high price for this instrument, which does not have the original back, it is a laminate. Not to mention it would probably cost well over $10,000 to have someone restore it. What do you guys think of restoration finds? Where to find them? Worth it?

In the past year I have bought one from Craigslist and one from eBay.

Craigslist is best for local inspection and pickup. I tried a couple "bass wanted" posts on Craigslist w/ no result except one wantabe scam.

eBay is a challenge, the price is often bid up too high and it is often too distant to deal with because inspection before purchase is difficult and after is too late and the seller won't agree to a price upon inspection sale which would allow a single trip. Poorly done previous repairs with silly glue can make your repair effort miserable. Even with faith buying shipping is risky and can drive the cost up. Greyhound eventually got mine to me - 15 days for a 9 hr trip. Next time I will make the drive.

There have been a couple "project basses" on TB, one there now.

High volume shops that repair educational instruments tend to destroy the really bad ones, to get them off the market, I guess. Maybe you could contact the local school board. . .

If you don't have access to a wood shop the tools can be a significant investment, even if you have a shop you may not have certain specialized tools. I had a full shop and have spent at least $500 on tools and supplies over the year. You need at least Traeger's reference book. You need to get into hot glue and have many, many clamps. You will probably need a way to heat or steam joints apart. Matching a 60 year old finish is a challenge in itself.

AND the work is often not that intuitive; you see or prepare to do things you have no idea are correct. But the luthiers here on TB are very, very helpful with specific questions.

Trying to repair a beat up basket case can make you really appreciate luthiership. But it can be fun, finding a candidate at a reasonable price that better not be more than you can later sell it for, (and remember new strings and setup parts can cost $300 or more), getting it home somehow, and taking sundry parts out of the basket and making a presentable instrument can be very rewarding.

Sorry about the long answer to your "simple question".

I have to say it - good luck.

JJDMusic · #5 02-17-2010, 03:07 PM

I am NOT a luthier and there is no way I would try to take on the task of restoring an instrument on my own. If I found one I would take it to a true professional. I'm just curious where these things are found.

Ebay is a big joke, too many people, fake bids, and high reserves. Basically you get robbed. Craigslist seems to only have old laminates that are ready to play or need around a thousand worth of work. I am talking about old carved instruments that have seen better days.

Thanks for the input so far, keep it coming.

gbaker · #6 02-17-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

I am NOT a luthier and there is no way I would try to take on the task of restoring an instrument on my own. If I found one I would take it to a true professional. I'm just curious where these things are found.

Ebay is a big joke, too many people, fake bids, and high reserves. Basically you get robbed. Craigslist seems to only have old laminates that are ready to play or need around a thousand worth of work. I am talking about old carved instruments that have seen better days.

Thanks for the input so far, keep it coming.

"He just smiled and shook my hand, 'no' was all he said."

fdeck · #7 02-17-2010, 07:01 PM

I got a Kay from a high school that was about to throw it in the dumpster. It had a broken neck block, separated bass bar, and no sound post. I fixed it myself, and it has held up to almost daily playing since 1982.

I just got Chuck Traeger's book, which I recommend. In addition, I would guess that if you were looking for a basket case, you would choose one whose defects look like they could be repaired by an amateur given enough time. For me, money was tight but time was plentiful. I could afford to let it take several months as I researched my options and assembled the needed clamps and materials.

Eric Hochberg · #8 02-21-2010, 09:29 AM

I think that restoration finds, as you say, are very chancy to get involved with unless you really know basses, restoration costs and the bass market. It's very easy to spend more on repairing a bass than it will be worth when in fully restored shape. The restoration costs are the same on an old european shop bass as on a pedigreed bass that one would hope would bring a price worthy of the restoration. So do you put 10k into a bass that the market will give you 8k for? Not even if you got the bass free, unless it is for you to play on and enjoy, and you can give it that kind of value. If your intention is to sell it, you have to be very careful or you will "flip it" at a loss. You also don't know how it will turn out in the end.

I've only restored one instrument that I bought for my own use, and while it has worked out ok financially, it has been a very long road getting it to play the way I need it to while keeping repair costs in mind and under some kind of control. I don't think I would go through that again.

JJDMusic · #9 03-01-2010, 12:36 PM

So I understand that not every bass is worth restoring. I guess I would really like to know how these shops that restore basses find their instruments.

Are these shops hunted out by people that have old instruments in disrepair or do the shops hunt out those instruments?

Basically do these basses fall into their laps or do they actively search for investments? Or a little of both?

Eric Hochberg · #10 03-01-2010, 01:17 PM

I found my project bass at a bass shop on consignment.

JJDMusic · #11 03-01-2010, 01:27 PM

So you bought it at a shop pre-restoration? Anybody else go this route?

Eric Hochberg · #12 03-01-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

So you bought it at a shop pre-restoration?

Yes, then had my regular guy work on it and brought it to Cincy for more work.

dbqluthier · #13 03-10-2010, 08:39 AM

I have the same question: What are the junk basses. I hear that China basses self destruct or they are worth only 1/3 of the purchase price immediately and that they are hard to sell. If that's true then used junk basses should be available.

It would be interesting to take a DB that is coming apart and just take it all apart and use hot hide glue in the re-assembly. Putting a new carved top on a plywood bass would be worth the time for me. It would take less time than building the GAL Low Cost Bass.

arnoldschnitzer · #14 03-10-2010, 10:49 AM

I have an Eastern European ply bass with the neck off that I'll never get to. If somebody wants it as a fix-it project PM me. I will turn it over for zero profit, so hopefully this post does not violate the CUP.

JJDMusic · #15 03-10-2010, 01:23 PM

Hi Arnold. Its John, I have an appointment with you next Wed. You are the perfect person to answer this question. When you get an instrument that is in bad, bad shape or looks like it hasn't been touched or even seen in decades; what is the typical story behind where the seller/owner found the bass? Any really interesting ones come to mind?

arnoldschnitzer · #16 03-10-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJDMusic

Hi Arnold. You are the perfect person

Please tell this to my wife and children.

arnoldschnitzer · #17 03-10-2010, 04:48 PM

But seriously, there are so many stories. When I was starting out in this business, I put the word out that I was looking for fix-er-upper basses. A very sweet, older guy called me and said he had an old Kay in bad shape. I went to his place; he had a room in his daughter's house along with three very active grandkids. We climbed into the attic and beheld a very funny sight: there was his Kay body laying belly-up on the floor. On one side was an old mattress; on the other was a dresser with the drawers open, forming a staircase. The little monsters would climb the dresser, jump off onto the Kay (springboard), then tumble onto the mattress. They giddily demonstrated for me, each trying to outdo the other. Needless to say, the bass' top was trashed, but I bought the thing, neck included, for about $50. The brats were despondent. Eventually I combined parts with other basket cases, put on a new finish, and set it up. I gigged on that bass for a couple years. Then I passed it on to Eddie Gomez. (I never told him this story.)

fdeck · #18 03-10-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I gigged on that bass for a couple years. Then I passed it on to Eddie Gomez. (I never told him this story.)

LOL! Now I have to add on to that. When I lived in South Bend, I got a call asking if I could provide my bass for Eddie Gomez to use for a gig. I was horrified because my bass was an old Kay that I had resurrected from a wreck. I told the organizer that I would be happy to loan my bass, but that he should try to find a better one.

If only I had known!

Bass · #19 03-12-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

...We climbed into the attic and beheld a very funny sight: there was his Kay body laying belly-up on the floor. On one side was an old mattress; on the other was a dresser with the drawers open, forming a staircase. The little monsters would climb the dresser, jump off onto the Kay (springboard), then tumble onto the mattress...

Ha, that is sooo funny, I can picture it in my head. Just like in a cartoon!

Thanks for sharing a terrific story.

Bass · #20 03-12-2010, 03:54 PM