wires instead of tailpiece

[Dr Rod]

I just wanted to share a setup trick invented by Al Laszlo from Cincinnati.

NO tailpiece, just 4 wires that extend the strings all the way to the endpin (actually 2 wires looped, 1 wire for 2 strings).

On most basses this can lead to a great improvement in volume, resonance etc...I highly recommend it.

The wires don't need to be extremely thick, just normal steel wire from the hardware store, and to secure the strings to the end of the wire you just need to make a knot (check out the internet, tonns of sites that teach you how to make knots).

I went the extra step, just for looks I stripped a thick electrical wire to get the nice looking copper wire, but it's no fun doing it.

I am hoping that someone will come up with a finished/ready-to-buy version that will take care of the aesthetics of the knots and wires a bit (copper perhaps, just like my electric wire version).

I don't have a digital camera otherwise I would attach a pic, sorry.

Stetson has put wires on many basses too.

[Hector Wolff]

There is an paragraph in the Autumn Bassist magazine, in the ISB Products section that mentions this arrangement and shows a picture. Says it's from HIMA. The strings hook into the tailpiece wires.

On your homemade version, aren't you concerned that the copper wire will continually stretch, or even eventually fail? Copper is a soft and ductle metal, after all.

[conte2music]

have you experienced any change in string tension?

[Dr Rod]

the wire is thick enough, it took it a couple days to settle, just like any string but there is no movement now. I have been using the copper wires for years on different basses, never had a problem. The wire does have to be much thicker than for the steel ones, that's for sure.

If you're concerned, you can just use the steel wires, I didn't notice a sonic difference.

Thanks for your warning though.

[Dr Rod]

about the string tension, I didn't feel it on my left hand, but the strings do feel different under the bow. Some people feel that their instruments get looser.

Somehow I don't think the actual tension changed but I have no proof, I just think the instrument vibrates very differently.

The wires are much lighter in weight than any tail piece, that may reduce some tension there, but nothing significant.

[bpclark]

Is it possible for the tension to change in this situtation? I always thought that the pitch of the string is based on three variables: tension, length, and mass. Changing the tailpiece doesn't affect the length or mass of the string so the tension should remain the same when the string is tuned up to pitch. If this is wrong, maybe somebody could enlighten me.

[anonymous0726]

Dunno how it works myself, but Bruno put a longer tailpiece cable on my bass and instantly it felt looser.

[nicklloyd]

structurally, nothing has changed... same bridge height, same strings, same angle over the bridge...

[Adrian Cho]

I discussed the HIMA product with the designer - Kevin Marvin. I was interested in one but could not bring myself to try one after seeing all the crimps it is dependent on. I just couldnt' be confident in those crimps. However Kevin mentioned quite a few big name players that have tried it out and are very happy with it.

[Mike Crumpton]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

Dunno how it works myself, but Bruno put a longer tailpiece cable on my bass and instantly it felt looser.

I thought remember you advocating Pecanic type fexible cords Ray?

bpclark might have a point in theory but then the same principal applies all those Pecanic tailpiece users say it feels different.

Arnold posted about an experiment simmilar I think to what is being sugested here and the results were that piz was improved but arco couldn't be tamed since after all, the tailpiece is a damper.

I would have thought also, that with independant wires, the points at which you hit a cross resonance on a string - say a g on the 'a' string or d in thumb on the 'a' would be less pronounced and would lessen the ability to unconciously know if you were in tune?

[anonymous0726]

Wasn't me with the boutique tailpiece wires, although I prefer to have at least a piece of cable rather than a length of coat hanger.

[Tbeers]

Originally Posted by Mike Crumpton

Arnold posted about an experiment simmilar I think to what is being sugested here and the results were that piz was improved but arco couldn't be tamed since after all, the tailpiece is a damper.

Link:
Tail Wire Length / Tailpiece Position

It's on the first page somewhere.

[jmpiwonka]

how 'bout this?
http://www.stringbass.com/fetchImage.php?ID=52

[Dr Rod]

Well yes, jmpiwonka. That's exactly the wire setup. Thanks for the pic.

What's that nut at the bottom? is it metal?

[Mike Crumpton]

My luthier says more or less the same thing when I mention some innovation I've seen here - 500 years of evolution can't be wrong - OK some wag will tell me this is a point of the evolutoinary scale but I find it very very hard to believe that this one hasn't been tried before because it is so easy to make - unlike titanium adjusters and hi-tech tailpeice cords. talking of which, as this cord can be cheapish according to threads here that found alternative sources why use wire or does the mass in wire matter - that it is effectively acting as four independant tailpieces? I note on the pic that it is to a degree compensated like a Pecanic tailpiece.

Apologies Ray - memory faulty - whoever it was was recommending them for (and I think fitting them for) their students and said it made a big difference for a few bucks.

[Dr Rod]

Hey Mike, the difference in sound is not small, it's very pronounced on many basses.

I understand your comment but IMHO keeping an open mind is just as wise as respecting 500 years of evolution.

[16fuss]

hey rodri i am glad you are back in bussiness!! tell about your new bass(and send some picture)

clemens

[KSB - Ken Smith]

One Luthier recently told me he is in favor 'now' of the coat hanger type wire for the Bass as the greater flexability of the strand wire robs tone from the Bass. He thinks the stiffer wire holds the tailpiece tighter and transfers more tone thru the Top.

"No Wire Hangers" the woman said in 'Mommy Dearest'.. Well, looks like 'mommy' will turn in her grave.

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by Mike Crumpton

OK some wag will tell me this is a point of the evolutoinary scale but I find it very very hard to believe that this one hasn't been tried before.

This is not a new idea. Lou DeLeone, Arnold's mentor, told me he saw it years ago.

[Tbeers]

As shallow as it sounds, I just don't think I could deal with these wires from a purely aesthetic standpoint. Something about this setup takes away from the beauty of the instrument in my eyes.