Wolf Tones

[toman]

Well, whatever one is comfortable with I guess. Personally I wouldn't put up with a bass that was messed up like that, especially when it would be so easy to at least try a little adjustment here or there. But if you don't need an instrument to play or have another, why bother. I sure don't know any bass players who have had to re-set their own post in a strange city with no rock-star luthiers around, so the practice would be pointless anyway.

Or, maybe I'm just a little confused about the thread topic; oh well. I'm sure your retailer will sell you the right strings to fix your bass. Be sure to let us all know which ones those are in case someone else buys a bass full of wolftones!

Isn't TB a great resource, just brimming with accurate information and friendly people, all in a real-time internet community where folks with common interests and goals can coherently discuss themes involving the modern double bassist!

[Dr_Atomic]

Thanks to the people who have given me good advice. Much appreciated.


toman --- Please, as I asked you before, don't insult my bass or me! It is unnecessary and rude. Wolf tones are inherent in string instruments as a result of the physics of their construction, and it is normal for string players to have to deal with them.

[toman]

If you take offense, it's not from any insult of mine. I just read your profile; I didn't realize you were 19. Seriously, it sounds like you have some very good teachers and advisers; talk to one of them about the problem. It isn't normal and buying more stuff is not likely to fix it.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by toman

Well, whatever one is comfortable with I guess. Personally I wouldn't put up with a bass that was messed up like that, especially when it would be so easy to at least try a little adjustment here or there. But if you don't need an instrument to play or have another, why bother. I sure don't know any bass players who have had to re-set their own post in a strange city with no rock-star luthiers around, so the practice would be pointless anyway.

Or, maybe I'm just a little confused about the thread topic; oh well. I'm sure your retailer will sell you the right strings to fix your bass. Be sure to let us all know which ones those are in case someone else buys a bass full of wolftones!

Isn't TB a great resource, just brimming with accurate information and friendly people, all in a real-time internet community where folks with common interests and goals can coherently discuss themes involving the modern double bassist!

There is no need to be rude here. The majority of high quality master built instruments have Wolf tones. Some possible ways to address them:

1. Adjust soundpost position and tension.
2. Adjust the afterlength of the strings tuning with a compensated TP.
3. Change strings to alter the distribution of tension across the top.
4. use wolf tone eliminators
5. Change type, wood, or construction of TP.
6. Examine for open seams, (sometimes the top can have a small opening that end up sounding like wolf tones).
7. Examine for cracks, bass bar issues, or other bass health related concerns.

Often luthiers have other solutions as well. Working with one in the process of taming the wolf can take some time. The relationship a player develops with their luthier is important. Over time the player becomes more familiar with their instruments subtle tendencies. The relationship with their luthier is also developing over time as the luthier gets to know the bass and the player. Together through trial and error they can come up with a set of interventions that address the idiosyncrasies of the bass and the players response to it.

This can take as long as a couple years to work out. Be patient and diligent. You'll figure out the right combination.

[toman]

High quality master built instruments have multiple wolf tones covering two strings when they're in a healthy state of repair? And switching string brand or type can solve that? Because that seems to be the topic of discussion, and apparently it's now rude to suggest an alternative or discuss the matter jokingly.

P.S.
Paul, with all due respect, this is (I'm pretty sure) a good example of why people seem to have left or don't post much anymore. It doesn't tend to be very rewarding to contribute, and while the archives are great, the occasional tasty new tidbit doesn't balance the rest. (In reference to the other thread)

[Dr_Atomic]

Thanks, Uncletoad. By the way, I shouldn't have said that the G is being wolfy. It is just being unforgiving sometimes which I think just means that a new string is in order. The characteristic that I don't like about it is hard to explain, but 99% of the time it's great, and 1% of the time I don't like it so maybe I'll change the string and maybe I'll just deal with it because it's usually terrific.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by toman

High quality master built instruments have multiple wolf tones covering two strings when they're in a healthy state of repair? And switching string brand or type can solve that? Because that seems to be the topic of discussion, and apparently it's now rude to suggest an alternative or discuss the matter jokingly.

P.S.
Paul, with all due respect, this is (I'm pretty sure) a good example of why people seem to have left or don't post much anymore. It doesn't tend to be very rewarding to contribute, and while the archives are great, the occasional tasty new tidbit doesn't balance the rest. (In reference to the other thread)

What other thread?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Dr_Atomic

Thanks, Uncletoad. By the way, I shouldn't have said that the G is being wolfy. It is just being unforgiving sometimes which I think just means that a new string is in order. The characteristic that I don't like about it is hard to explain, but 99% of the time it's great, and 1% of the time I don't like it so maybe I'll change the string and maybe I'll just deal with it because it's usually terrific.

I have a similar problem on my G. It is very common. Part of my solution was to have my post moved toward the foot and out away from the center of the foot. It's now about a cm from the foot's centerline and the top edge of the post is just forward of the foot about 5mm or so. I've also messed around with string height. It's can exacerbate or reduce wolviness as well.

Arco the Flatchrome Steel G was much better but I didn't like the pizz character as much. The pizz of the spirocore is still my preferred pizz tone and I spend most of my time doing that. As such I'm still using the Spirocore.

It's still funky and I'll need to do more to address it. I'm not sure what the next move is but I guess what I'm illustrating is that it's a process. Strings vs. post vs structur etc.

Be sure though before you start chasing any wolves that you are certain your bass is in good working order having no seams open or other isssues. That can really confuse the issue.

[mheintz]

To add to what Phil said, I find that wolf tones can move from season to season or just simply change with age of the bass. I had a wolf on my open A, but now have one on my open G. I imagine that it's related to winter vs. summer soundpost or the general contraction of the instrument during the colder months, but I'm merely guessing as to the cause. I just bought a Marvin Wire tailpiece to see if it tames the wolf. It's a relatively cheap experiment and I'll keep ya'll posted on the results.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by mheintz

TI just bought a Marvin Wire tailpiece to see if it tames the wolf. It's a relatively cheap experiment and I'll keep ya'll posted on the results.

Do. I've thought about trying that too.

[Dr_Atomic]

Thanks!

Cheers, guys!

[mheintz]

Originally Posted by mheintz

I just bought a Marvin Wire tailpiece to see if it tames the wolf. It's a relatively cheap experiment and I'll keep ya'll posted on the results.

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Do. I've thought about trying that too.

Preliminary results = wolf tamed. I just installed the Marvin Wire this afternoon, so I'll have to spend more time with it to see if I like it. However, the immediate effect is that the wolf is no longer noticeable in most situations. The G string doesn't noticeably fight the bow. (However, if I play the same note on the E string in thumb position while dampening the open G, I can draw the wolf out.) So far, an absolutely worthwhile experiment. I must confess that a wolf eliminator on the G string with my regular tailpiece also did the trick, but so far I think that the Marvin Wire is a serious contender. Aside from taming the Wolf, the notes seem to start a bit easier and the strings vibrate more freely. Too early to tell if this is just a placebo effect, but so far, I'm happy with it.

[Eric Hochberg]

I installed it a week ago, and the first thing I did was check the wolf on the A string up an octave. Oh well, still there... Anyway, I bought the tailpiece primarily to address a bit of tightness in the feel of the strings and I think the results are positive, with a bit more "give" to the strings now. The bass is a bit brighter tonally now, not sure if I'm digging that, but we'll see how it goes.

[prelims222]

You may want to mess with the Wolf Eliminator on different partials on different strings. My bass does well with the eliminator on a high A on the D String afterlength, rather than on the A string. I don't know if there is a better place, but I haven't looked too hard.

If you finger an E on your D String while you play your A string, does it help to supress the wolf? What about the Octave? Those might be things to look at in figuring out what it is you can do to help your bass sound more evenly.

[mheintz]

A couple more thoughts:

1. With my bass, a tight soundpost can lead to a wolf on the A string. If one has a perpetually wolfy A despite shortening the soundpost, it might mean that the top is too thin; the top is sinking, causing the soundpost to be perpetually tight.

2. I find that wolfs can be controlled to a large degree by letting the open strings sympathetically vibrate. For instance, the wolf on my G only appears when I mute other strings. (I understand that some gambas had an additional string that was meant specifically to cancel a wolf.) If you have a chromatic extension, you can also open the extension to a note that vibrates sympathetically with the wolf tone. D for A, C for G etc... This also might help the wolf.

[JoeyNaeger]

I was playing an etude in G# minor the other day and every time I hit a G#, it was notably resistive under the bow. Not a fully developed wolf tone, but it was still there. My teacher casually opened my C-extension to a C#, and it disappeared completely.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

The majority of high quality master built instruments have Wolf tones.

This is my understanding also.

My own bass is far, far, far from possessing a pedigree, but it has wolftones on A and F#. At first, I was considering making some effort to minimize or eliminate them because they are irritating at times...especially when I don't have my tuner handy and try to tune with the octave harmonics in thumb position.

Worse, now that I have a c-extension on my bass I get sympathetic rattling of the E string behind the stop when I play F. Now I know why Edgar Meyer keeps all his stops on his extension haha!

Anyway, I was talking to a cellist some years ago who said that he squeezes the ribs with his knees when he's playing a wolftone-prone note. It changes the soundbox. So moving or adjusting the length of the soundpost makes sense to me. The thing is I don't know if that simply moves the wolftones to other places or reduces their influence, and I didn't ask him at the time. Chances are he wouldn't have cared one way or the other...and I wouldn't have either were I a cellist.