Wolf Tones and the Soundpost

[Jason Sypher]

I've been enjoying my new Lombardi but there is one pretty glaring problem and that is some major wolfiness under the bow at every G (even a bit on the related B) on the bass. Quick stuff is manageable but long bows in the recording studio are really tough. What role does the soundpost play in wolf tones? I feel like I need a set up by a "bass whisperer". What am I gonna do about this?

[Cody Sisk]

Sometimes you can bring the bottom foot out towards the treble side a bit to dampen the wolf. However I've found this only works for a slight wolf maybe 25% of the time. Your best bet would be a wolf eliminator. I recommend New Harmony or Lup-X because they come in different weights offering more customization. Find a bass luthier with a stock of these so that you can get the right weight to tame the wolf while not muting the overtones too much.

[Jason Sypher]

Yeah...wolftone eliminator....but on three strings? I've never seen that on a bass before..

[Eric Hochberg]

I found that the weight of the tailpiece can have an effect on the wolf. I wouldn't want a G wolf, for sure. When I put on a Marvin wire tailpiece, my Ab wolf changed to A. Downside with the Marvin for me was the brighter tone I got.

[Jason Sypher]

I thought it was an Ab when I got it... The bass is stronger on the G and D. It might be good to balance that out a bit. I could try a Pecanic tailpiece or something.

[Matt Ides]

Def try the eliminator. I had a F# pretty bad on D and A string. Took some trial and error, but the wolf eliminator did it's job.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I've been enjoying my new Lombardi but there is one pretty glaring problem and that is some major wolfiness under the bow at every G (even a bit on the related B) on the bass. Quick stuff is manageable but long bows in the recording studio are really tough. What role does the soundpost play in wolf tones? I feel like I need a set up by a "bass whisperer". What am I gonna do about this?

Hey Jason, what are your after-lengths tuned to ie what are the notes?

[Uncletoad]

Speaking of Doc Jake....


I have the exact same issue with The Queen. Jake made me a new tailpiece and I tuned the afterlengths a bit...significantly reduced....not gone but very manageable.

[Uncletoad]

Oh yea and a slightly lighter G string on top of Spirocores helped too. All across the bass. Currently an Oliv G but when it dies I'll go back to the Original Flat Chrome G.

Oliv D/G really helped a lot but I'm not crazy about the Oliv D.

[Jason Sypher]

Jake:

G- d
D- g
A- e
E- b

String- after length tuning

[Heifetzbass]

Jason- It's probably that G afterlength tuning, but with the B and the D afterlength you are going to have sympathetic vibrations all over the G major chord... I would just try to adjust the afterlength tuning by either wolf tone eliminators or trying a different tailpiece and length.

Brian

[Jason Sypher]

Yeah, how bout that G chord huh? I'm gonna try a tailpiece change. Then continue looking for the best string combo. The higher tension Spiro Mitts pump it out but I think the wolf is more pronounced with them. The bass has Weichs when I tried it out. I'm still not over messing with some guts and just purchased some Pistoys. This is a process...one I never enjoy but one that's necessary.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Jake:

G- d
D- g
A- e
E- b

String- after length tuning

Are those notes right on or are you rounding up?

In a perfect world I'd want those notes to be C/G/D/A. Try lengthening the tailpiece wire until you get C/A/F#/A

And yeah, the string tension alters the after-length values, so you need to adjust the tailpiece to suit the string set...

[Eric Hochberg]

My afterlength tuning has always been a fifth on each string. What's the philosophy behind other/different intervals?

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

My afterlength tuning has always been a fifth on each string. What's the philosophy behind other/different intervals?

Violins are tuned in fifths and the after-lengths are two octaves and a fifth, basses are tuned in fourths and with the after-lengths tuned to two octaves and a fourth they sound terrific!

[Jason Sypher]

Being that my car got towed for $800 yesterday I decided to take matters into my own hands and start experimenting. I sanded out the inside of my tailpiece and tried a few different tailwire lengths. I was able to tube the afterlengths closer to what Jake suggested by shortening the tailwire which lengthened the afterlegths and lowered the pitches. The wolf is still there but moved into a more solid Ab which is helpful for now. I think the thinning of the tailpiece has mellowed some of the stridency in the sound and evened out the bass a bit. I realize looking at other tailpieces online mine seems rather short at 11 3/4". What are your tailpieces measuring? I may, just as an experiment go the other direction and see what lengthening the wire will produce. It was good to get my hands on the tailpiece and do a little work myself. It was very rough and I evened it out testing it like a musical instrument instead of a string holder. I'll probably spring for a fine tailpiece at some point next month but, it's a worthwhile experience to put some work in myself.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Violins are tuned in fifths and the after-lengths are two octaves and a fifth, basses are tuned in fourths and with the after-lengths tuned to two octaves and a fourth they sound terrific!

Thanks, if my tailpiece isn't too long, maybe I'll try it. I have experimented with moving the tailpiece up (raising the pitch) and didn't notice much if any tonal difference.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I was able to tube the afterlengths closer to what Jake suggested by shortening the tailwire which lengthened the afterlegths and lowered the pitches. The wolf is still there but moved into a more solid Ab which is helpful for now. I think the thinning of the tailpiece has mellowed some of the stridency in the sound and evened out the bass a bit. I realize looking at other tailpieces online mine seems rather short at 11 3/4". What are your tailpieces measuring?

Jason, your tailpiece is short because your bass has a short lower bout. Sometimes, getting the tailpiece firmly up against the saddle helps with a wolf tone. I know this is counter intuitive. And sometimes nudging the soundpost up closer to the bridge can help also, though the tonal change may not be to your liking. Good luck, and happy experimenting.

[Jason Sypher]

Actually, that was my intuition....we can take a look at it when you have time for that repair. Thanks....

[Jason Sypher]

And thanks for the input. You have perspectives far beyond my own.