Wooden endpin

Bassalova · #1 05-14-2009, 06:53 PM

Hi again guys and girls.

I am thinking of trying the drumstick endpin trick. That means I need a drumstick that is like 10 mm thick. Vater has got timbale sticks that measure 3/8 inches, available in both hickory and maple.
I guess maple would be the strongest one, regaring the pendular movement and the weight of the bass during playing. Or what do you think?

Jake deVilliers · #2 05-15-2009, 12:21 AM

Either is fine - the hickory is maybe tougher but I haven't had any reports of breakages in either wood. Of course, I mostly use 7As and grind one end down to fit the endpin hole...do what is easy for you and return with your findings.

Bassalova · #3 05-15-2009, 04:51 AM

When I look at my ruler and see the thickness of 3/8 inches, I might drill the hole in the endpin socket a little bigger, to fit with a normal drumstick. The timbale stick seems a bit to slim.....might break

swingingoodtime · #4 04-26-2010, 09:35 AM

Reviving an older thread here, but...

I thought I'd give this same thing a go; I used an AMS 2B drumstick (not sure what wood, sorry) that's 5/8" (15.875mm) in diameter. A 16mm rubber chair leg foot fits perfectly on the end.

I've recorded the difference between how it sounds compared to my hollow steel endpin with a big heavy rubber stopper on it. Sorry, I should have weighed them but forgot; will do this if anyone's really interested, but I reckon it's at least 3 times if not more...

I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts (on the endpin difference, not my crappy playing! I've only been learning for about 6 months). I reckon that the wooden pin gave me more definition in the upper range, but apparently less low end, but a tighter sound overall. Metal pin gave more bass 'bloom' & less definition on the upper range. Very interestingly, though, it sounds the opposite from the playing position. I can feel the bass vibrating more with the wooden pin, and it feels & sounds like there's more bottom end. The recording was only done from a couple of feet away, though, so can't say how it sounds from further back.

Attached are pizz mp3's; will post arco's next.

swingingoodtime · #5 04-26-2010, 09:37 AM

Here are the arco files. Only recorded on my iPhone, so not exactly hi quality, but enough to pick the differences...

Thoughts, anyone...?

George700DL · #6 04-26-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingingoodtime

Here are the arco files. Only recorded on my iPhone, so not exactly hi quality, but enough to pick the differences...

Thoughts, anyone...?

I listened to the recordings using low-quality earphones (those that come with MP3 players), so maybe that further diminishes the differences - but I can hardly tell the difference between the 2 files.

I've been reading Chuck Traeger's book on this subject - I bought it AFTER I began using a wooden endpin. So I'm in favor of wooden endpins, but I think the difference is very subtle. It's one of those little things that adds up with other little things to create a noticeable difference, in my opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to post this, by the way.

George

Jack Clark · #7 04-26-2010, 11:36 AM

Just subscribing. I'm curious because my current rather long, cello-length endpin is made of one-inch, Schedule 40 PVC pipe. I have no idea what effect, if any, it has on my odd instrument's tone.

Thanks.

bigolbassguy · #8 04-26-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassalova

When I look at my ruler and see the thickness of 3/8 inches, I might drill the hole in the endpin socket a little bigger, to fit with a normal drumstick. The timbale stick seems a bit to slim.....might break

On my bass, I carefully bored out from 3/8 to 1/2" in order to switch to wood. That was as much as I could increase the size without compromising the thickness of the wood inside the collar. It's also quite a leap of faith. Your old endpin will be useless once this is done. I suppose you could use it as a towel rack or a XXXL toilet paper dispenser...

I've posted before that the switch made a huge difference in the tone of my 3/4 bass, which weighs a whopping 21.5 lbs. I think the overall mass of a given instrument plays a significant role in the effectiveness of the change. Any thoughts on this?

George700DL · #9 04-26-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigolbassguy

On my bass, I carefully bored out from 3/8 to 1/2" in order to switch to wood. That was as much as I could increase the size without compromising the thickness of the wood inside the collar. It's also quite a leap of faith. Your old endpin will be useless once this is done. I suppose you could use it as a towel rack or a XXXL toilet paper dispenser...

I've posted before that the switch made a huge difference in the tone of my 3/4 bass, which weighs a whopping 21.5 lbs. I think the overall mass of a given instrument plays a significant role in the effectiveness of the change. Any thoughts on this?

My endpin is 3/4". I turned it out of walnut. The way I made my socket, if I ever wanted to install a conventional tapered socket+pin, I could. But I'm happy with my setup.

That's funny, my bass weighs 21.6 lbs

George

ASBass · #10 04-26-2010, 04:01 PM

Here's my Epiphone with a drumstick endpin and crutch tip.....

swingingoodtime · #11 04-26-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George700DL

I listened to the recordings using low-quality earphones (those that come with MP3 players), so maybe that further diminishes the differences - but I can hardly tell the difference between the 2 files.

I've been reading Chuck Traeger's book on this subject - I bought it AFTER I began using a wooden endpin. So I'm in favor of wooden endpins, but I think the difference is very subtle. It's one of those little things that adds up with other little things to create a noticeable difference, in my opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to post this, by the way.

George

Yes, you're right; the difference is subtle. More 'shades' than 'shadows', if that makes sense, so better headphones may help (I was using Sennheiser PX100's, although I probably have a better idea of what to listen for given that I've the benefit of sensing the actual difference in terms of both tone AND feel).

I'm undecided which I like better; the wood pin gives me clarity/detail (which may benefit intonation) whereas the metal pin gives me umph/warmth (which is just cool, period

). Hopefully I'll get the chance to test it from a distance at some stage; possibly at my next lesson.

swingingoodtime · #12 04-26-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

Just subscribing. I'm curious because my current rather long, cello-length endpin is made of one-inch, Schedule 40 PVC pipe. I have no idea what effect, if any, it has on my odd instrument's tone.

Thanks.

Wow, if you replaced that with a metal pin (or, should I say, PIPE

), that would weigh a ton! I reckon it would have a considerable dampening effect, although I'm not familiar with exactly how the endpin fits your instrument; reasonably conventionally, yes?

Jack Clark · #13 04-26-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingingoodtime

Wow, if you replaced that with a metal pin (or, should I say, PIPE

), that would weigh a ton! I reckon it would have a considerable dampening effect, although I'm not familiar with exactly how the endpin fits your instrument; reasonably conventionally, yes?

No, hardly conventionally. The endpin is very long by DB standards. There's a good pic of it here at post no. 1:
Upright Guitarrón (UG) project completed

I drilled a 1/4" (~6mm) hole in a male-threaded end cap for 1-inch schedule 40 PVC pipe, bolted it to where the normal guitarrón endpin for a strap would be, then screwed the PVC-pipe endpin onto that.

My luthier cringes whenever he sees it. He wants to make me a nice one out of wood. That's why this thread is of interest to me. Yeah, and I, too, am thinking it would be really heavy!

I wonder how I could just test out a wooden endpin to see what difference it would make in the tone without actually doing it. Maybe I could fit a one-inch wooden dowel into the existing endcap, just temporarily?

MDEbass · #14 04-26-2010, 09:53 PM

I know you guys are probably talking about straight endpins, but I have a Laborie-Rabbath style angled endpin that is made of oak that is roughly 3/4 inch thick and about 11 inches long, and its perfectly stable.

Also, my bass is about 20 lbs.

Gearhead43 · #15 04-26-2010, 10:41 PM

I got Johnny Atomic to make me one of his endpins, and after ditchng the heavy long metal rod my bass really did "open up" alot and seems louder overall. The Atomic Endpins are wooden with a tough aluminum rod inside, and are very very lightweight. The steel set screw "bites" into the alumium rod making it very secure.

bigolbassguy · #16 04-27-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George700DL

My endpin is 3/4". I turned it out of walnut. The way I made my socket, if I ever wanted to install a conventional tapered socket+pin, I could. But I'm happy with my setup.

That's funny, my bass weighs 21.6 lbs

George

Sounds like we should throw them in the ring together.

swingingoodtime · #17 04-27-2010, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

No, hardly conventionally. The endpin is very long by DB standards. There's a good pic of it here at post no. 1:
Upright Guitarrón (UG) project completed

I drilled a 1/4" (8mm) hole in a male-threaded end cap for 1-inch schedule 40 PVC pipe, bolted it to where the normal guitarrón endpin for a strap would be, then screwed the PVC-pipe endpin onto that.

My luthier cringes whenever he sees it. He wants to make me a nice one out of wood. That's why this thread is of interest to me. Yeah, and I, too, am thinking it would be really heavy!

I wonder how I could just test out a wooden endpin to see what difference it would make in the tone without actually doing it. Maybe I could fit a one-inch wooden dowel into the existing endcap, just temporarily?

Dowel sounds good; I reckon go for the bodgy rig! It doesn't have to look good in the experimental phase. Carbon fibre would be interesting, but damn expensive.

btw, weighed my bass & the end pins. My bass weighs about 9.5kg (20.9 lbs), the metal pin weighs 250g & the wood pin 70g (so wasn't far off on the weight estimate!)

Jack Clark · #18 04-27-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingingoodtime

I reckon go for the bodgy rig!

Okay, you're gonna need to explain that bit of Aussie-talk to me, mate!

swingingoodtime · #19 04-27-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

Okay, you're gonna need to explain that bit of Aussie-talk to me, mate!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bodgy

Ergo: "I reckon go for the bodgy rig" = "I suggest you have no hesitation in rigging together a structure of questionable quality and permanence..."

Urgh. Too many words. First one better. Want. Beer. Now.

George700DL · #20 04-27-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingingoodtime

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bodgy

Ergo: "I reckon go for the bodgy rig" = "I suggest you have no hesitation in rigging together a structure of questionable quality and permanence..."

Urgh. Too many words. First one better. Want. Beer. Now.

Foster's?