would this work for rib stock?

[Don Harris]

Matthew's got me inspired. I'm shopping for wood and was wondering if I need quartersawn wood specifically for the ribs and back of a flat back bass or would something along these lines work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/OUTRAGEOUS-5A-CU...QQcmdZViewItem

[1st Bass]

That stuff looks great, but I didn't see whether it was quarter-sawn. Quarter sawn will give you less trouble. Also, do you have a way to re-saw that stuff into ribs?

[Don Harris]

Yes, I have access to re-sawing and thickness sanding. I also realize that I'd need to add wings to make most of this stuff work for a back. So I'm better off holding out for quarter sawn?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Don, you are biting off a big project you may not have time for. Oh yea, I remember you are semi-retired :. Are you going to start a blog so we can all see your progress or just keep all the fun to yourself?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

That's a gorgeous piece of maple and I would think you could get all the ribs out of it, but I've never built a bass before. Is quartersawn wood less prone to seasonal cracking?

[Don Harris]

Hey clink. I can't start a bass until I finish a few projects around the house that I haven't had time for till lately, but those will soon be done. I found a local luthier's group that meets twice a month with a very capable teacher that has got me totally inspired. At least I won't be flying blind building by myself (I'll probably start with a cello though). I might ought to take pics and see if there's anything worth posting...

[Don Harris]

Another quick question: Would some of the difficulty in working with figured wood be lessened by building forms and using a heat blanket to bend the ribs, or is it still scary?

[Matthew Tucker]

That looks very nice. The plank you show is 7/8ths I think, yeah? You'll be lucky to get two boards out of that when sawn unless the sawmill is very clever. Perhaps three.

How about a three-piece back?

[Don Harris]

The guy who is going to re-saw for me is very confident on being able to make very smooth cuts without much waste. He's thinking on a clean 7/8" board to cut three 4mm pieces for ribs or two 10mm pieces for a back. As for the wood, I'm not looking at that piece in particular, but pieces like it with better dimensions.

[Jake deVilliers]

Its a little slabby for my taste.

If you're looking for curly maple and Engelmann or Sitka Spruce get in touch with Bruce Harvie at Orcas Island Tonewoods.

http://www.rockisland.com/~tonewoods/Home.html

I think Arnold got the quilt for his amazingly beautiful bass from Bruce.

[mojoluthier]

It looks like high yield oriented lumber to me, and is probably aggressively kiln dried as well. If you're going to go to the trouble of making an instrument, I'd use more appropriate quality material. Bruce Harvie is a good source, though there are others.

[Don Harris]

Thanks for the input, guys.

[Matthew Tucker]

quartersawn shows flame better but slab is probably fine. i think dryness for rib stock is less important that for front and back because thinner and you're going to wet it to bend it anyway. how long before you're able to start building?

[Don Harris]

I'm planning to start building a bench, templates, molds and forms within the next month. Just took a hand plane class today which was great, and bought some nice Lie-Nielson planes. A #7 for joining, a scrub plane for removing material from the top, and a little low angle block plane. Beatiful things. I'm going to use Peter Chandler's Pietro Pallotta plans, but I'm thinking about rather than doing the break on the back, modifying the mold to do a curved back as it reaches the neck (kind of like my Jakstadt) and maybe modify the back braces. Not an X, but a modified X. Still chewing on that. I ended up buying some maple on ebay. Not quite as slabby as the pic on the previous link. The rib stock is quarter sawn. Got it all pretty darn cheap. Got some nice engelmann ordered for the top, but I think for the first bass i'll use some of the $110 sitka from Orcas Island. I don't feel like I'm wasting my time using less than great materials. I'd feel horrible using great materials and making stupid mistakes the first time out. I'd much rather build a bass with lesser materials than a cello or violin for my first project.

[flint]

More power to you, but depending on the amount of hand tool experience you have I think you might should consider building a violin first. There are a lot of things that it's just easier to sort out on a smaller scale. I'm also looking at starting my first bass, but I did build a violin first (and I have an MFA in sculpture).

Just my 2 cents.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Don Harris

II'd much rather build a bass with lesser materials than a cello or violin for my first project.

I'm with you Don, I don't understand the attraction of violins ... but it IS a big and long term project!

Bending the back wood around a curve is probably going to be harder than bending a simple break because the wood is three times as thick.

One thing I wish i'd done at the beginning? Practice using hide glue.

[Don Harris]

A local luthier first suggested that I start with a violin, but then later reconsidered and said that some aspects will actually be easier on a larger scale, and that if I've got the nerve, go ahead and start with a bass. I definitely appreciate everyone's input, but find myself kind of obsessed with the bass form. I'm leaning toward jumping in with both feet.

I was thinking of building a form for the back bend and using heat. Then doing something like this for clamping the braces: http://pweb.jps.net/~msm/htmlpages/ps4.html

If this is a really bad idea, somebody please talk me out of it. I just asthetically prefer the gradual bend over the break and I'm intrigued with messing around with bracing to avoid the shrinkage/expansion problems associated with perpendicular grain contact in traditional bracing without adding all of the mass of a Jakstadt like X-brace. Didn't I read here that the Shen willow flat back has a bit of an arch built in to the back to avoid the "concave" problem? I'm assuming that was a longitudinal arch.


I'm anxious to start practicing things like glueing, joining, purfling, etc. I'm crazy about this purfling pattern: http://www.cranfordpub.com/otis/_violins.htm, http://www.cranfordpub.com/otis/work...ng%20knot.html, and want to start messing around with that kind of stuff. I've got a source for a bunch of spruce offcuts I need to pick up soon.

[1st Bass]

Originally Posted by Don Harris

A local luthier first suggested that I start with a violin, but then later reconsidered and said that some aspects will actually be easier on a larger scale, and that if I've got the nerve, go ahead and start with a bass. I definitely appreciate everyone's input, but find myself kind of obsessed with the bass form. I'm leaning toward jumping in with both feet.

If this is a really bad idea, somebody please talk me out of it.
I'm anxious to start practicing things like glueing, joining, purfling, etc. I'm crazy about this purfling pattern: http://www.cranfordpub.com/otis/_violins.htm, http://www.cranfordpub.com/otis/work...ng%20knot.html, and want to start messing around with that kind of stuff. I've got a source for a bunch of spruce offcuts I need to pick up soon.

Well-- I don't know that I am qualified to talk you out of or into much of anything-- but I built four violins and two violas before building my first bass, and I am pretty well convinced that without the previous experience I could not have managed it. On the other hand some people have done it.

I used very plain wood, which probably helped on the bending, etc.

I used Peter Chandler's book, but it is lacking in detail--a good book, but I was "filling in the blanks" from previous experience. I also got Chuck Traeger's book, which helped in some areas. I also called Peter Chandler on the phone a number of times, which helped a lot. He's no longer available.

I would have recommended trying the principles on a violin or viola first, then a cello, then the bass-- but if you already are a very accomplished, confident and competent woodwoker, go for it... The deal is, on a first violin, you have $250 worth of materials, tops (My first cost less than $100), and maybe 300 hours at risk, if you are meticulous-- on the bass, I had $1400 in materials, and it took me between 500 and 900 hours, I would guess. Quite a difference.

[Matthew Tucker]

You will change things as you go.

I had all sorts of plans for fancy scroll and purfling patterns but in the end I'm glad I decided to keep it simple and let the wood do the talking..

Remember your back planks are glued up with hide glue, if you heat it too much it will let go. You can put a slight bow in a flat back by shaping the bracing. I did that on mine. Its a transverse arch, very subtle. But then you have to allow for this curvature when shaping the blocks, which by the time you get around to it, will already be built and sanded flat. Dang, shoulda thought of that.

Chandler's frame design works once you figure out what he means, but you have to make a few mods and allow space for things like being able to fit the linings etc and room for a screwdriver once the thing is all glued up to be able to unscrew the frame from the blocks ...

I say, make a bass, but keep it simple. Things get complicated all by themselves!

[1st Bass]

BTW, I did the gradual bend you mentioned-- it worked pretty well. I bent it full-thickness (9mm or so), using wet rags, a clothes-iron, and clamps, over a form. I had used a waterproof titebond glue for the back centerseam, so it held up to the heat and moisture OK.