2 guitarists are burying me!!! Help!

[bigcardinal]

Hello all! I'm new to this sight, and reasonably new to bass as well, and I have a technical question about being heard in the mix. I play with this hard rock band with 2 guitarists that are extremely loud. I have a pretty loud amp and can't figure out what are/is the problems that are keeping the bass down. Let me describe my settup and situation so that you can help me out with your advice:
1) Bass: Squier Bronco, replaced stock pu with a stack guitar humbucker I had laying around (no more noise)
2) Amp: Yorkville XM200: 200 watt, 15" combo
3) Practice environment: A small room (maybe 10' x 20') in the basement of a house, carpeted floor
4) The competition: 2 x 80 watt solid state guitar amps and a hard hitting drummer

I have a few ideas of where the problems might lie, but any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[PilbaraBass]

Stihl makes great chainsaws....


















a proper application of a quality chainsaw eliminates most guitarist problems

[Juniorkimbrough]

how are you eq'ing your amp?

turn the mids up and the bass down

[Fret-less Six]

It's probably the guitar humbucker, slap a bass one in there.

[AJ Brown]

You're probably competing with the bass frequencies of the guitars, kick drum, and toms. I've had great success with asking my guitarist to turn his bass levels down a little bit (a tad below flat so he's out of my range), turning my bass down a little (to get out of the way of the kick), then turning up the mids (where nobody else should be). Worked like a charm.

[bigcardinal]

Yep, I know the bass kinda sucks. It is quite midrangy and not very clear sounding. I would like to replace it soon enough. Some people have told me that adding an extention cabinet would help greatly...a 210 especially (the amp can drive and extention of 200w @ 4 ohms)

[Marcus]

Uh...

Try telling them to turn down maybe?

[WesC]

Tell them that they can't play below the 5th fret

[Fliptrique]

a signle 1x15 driver with 200watts is not really THAT loud.

and yeah - playing at less overwhelming dB levels may help by actually allowing to hear what`s going on.

[bigcardinal]

Yeah, believe me I have tried to tell them to turn down...they've got there own little volume war going on I think. It seems to always get mysteriously louder as the practice continues! And then, there's the issue of the drummer...

[mactac]

a 200w 1x15 compbo cannot compete with 2 x 80w guitar amps. 80 watts for guitar is *loud*. I'd say to compete with both of those guitars, get a loud 4x10 & a good head (400w or better)

then, make sure you *don't* have the lo-boost on your amp, and eq some midrange - ie to the opposite of the smiley curve.

The amp only has so much "volume", so you may have to turn down the bass to increase the volume (sounds weird, but by turning down some bass, you can increase the overall volume without distortion)

your friend is the low midrange....

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by bigcardinal

It seems to always get mysteriously louder as the practice continues! And then, there's the issue of the drummer...

Those are not good signs at all, especially if three people are having trouble controlling their volume.

[phxlbrmpf]

I can think of three things:

1.) I don't think the Bronco is the best bass to compete with two loud guitarists, in my opinion, switching to a long scale bass such as a Fender P will give you a lot more low end.

2.) a 15" isn't exactly the best kind of speaker for cutting through, personally, I feel 10 inch speakers are the way to go

3.) have you tried a compressor pedal? Those can work wonders to make your bass sound and attack stand out more.

What kind of music are you playing? Chances are 200 watts aren't really enough to compete with 2 guitarists.

Oh, yeah, try putting your amp on a chair, a bench or something similar, this really works wonders and everyone will instantly be able to hear you better because you'll be closer to everyone's ears.

[bigcardinal]

thanks for all the advice. the music we play is hard rock, so obviously it's loud. I will try the eq'ing suggestions at the next practice......maybe I should have gone with the 2x10 instead of the 15???? Thats what I get for trying to save $50!!

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by marcusalan

Those are not good signs at all, especially if three people are having trouble controlling their volume.

ca·coph·o·ny (k-kf-n)
n. pl. ca·coph·o·nies
1. Jarring, discordant sound; dissonance: heard a cacophony of horns during the traffic jam.
2. The use of harsh or discordant sounds in literary composition, as for poetic effect.

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[French cacophonie, from Greek kakophni, from kakophnos, cacophonous; see cacophonous.]


ummm...maybe your band should try playing MUSIC, instead...

[bigcardinal]

Right...maybe its time for a new amp AND a new bass!!!

[bigcardinal]

...and maybe also some new bandmates???

[Gronk]

I think the guitar pup is hurting you.

I have a Yorkville BM200, same as your's I think but with a tweeter. In my last band I had two guitarists. One had a 100w Marshall stack, the other had a 50w Ashton stack. During band practices I could be heard fine. I did put my amp on a table or chair, it does help. I also played with a hardcore metal band for a while. 3 guitarists, all with stacks. I managed to be heard 99% of the time. When I couldn't be heard, I simply asked the guitarists to turn their amps down a bit. No point practicing if you can only hear one instrument!

So yea, I'd say either get a new pup, or better yet, a new bass if you feel your up to that point.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by PilbaraBass

ca·coph·o·ny (k-kf-n)
n. pl. ca·coph·o·nies
1. Jarring, discordant sound; dissonance: heard a cacophony of horns during the traffic jam.
2. The use of harsh or discordant sounds in literary composition, as for poetic effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[French cacophonie, from Greek kakophni, from kakophnos, cacophonous; see cacophonous.]


ummm...maybe your band should try playing MUSIC, instead...

Um... what?

[bigcardinal]

So a longer scale bass will help me to be heard? What about pickups....the hotter the better, I guess??